So I'm going all grain and looking to do a false bottom 10 gallon cooler tun build. I see you can get a good deal on a full fly sparging set up from Midwest for like 200 bucks that's comes with everything...false bottom...2 coolers etc.... I'm not sure if I really want to go through the hassle of fly sparging but I may at some point take a dive into it... I have a 5 gallon max kettle right now. When you fill it all the way to the top its at 5 gallons. I know I will have to buy another boil kettle. What I am wondering is...If I batch sparge can I just collect the first running in my small pot and then use the bigger pot to add the sparge water? How much liquid typically comes off a first run for a 5 gallon batch? Or would I be better off just buying a second 10 gallon cooler and using it to hold sparge water?
Going all grain...need some equipment input
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That's exactly what I do--i capture my first runnings in a 5-gallon stock pot, transfer the sparge water from my kettle to the mash tun, then pour the stock pot into the kettle and start it heating.
BTW, that pot you drain the first runnings into actually has a technical name--it's called a "grant."
http://www.pairodicebrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/batch-vs-fly-sparging.pdf
For 10 lbs of grain you will need 4 gallons sparge water if you are doing full boil. I was using a 5 gallon cooler for sparge water. From my understanding, first running should only be around 2 quarts and you put that back in
For 10 lbs of grain you will need 4 gallons sparge water if you are doing full boil. I was using a 5 gallon cooler for sparge water. From my understanding, first running should only be around 2 quarts and you put that back in
timdillon36
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The quickest cheapest and fastest way to try it out is to get a paint strainer bag from your local big box store and try a 2.5G batch in the pan you have.
Give it a try before you jump all in with $$$ of new gear as well as a longer brew day.
If you like it then spend the money to go to a bigger batch size either BIAB or 3 vessel.
Give it a try before you jump all in with $$$ of new gear as well as a longer brew day.
If you like it then spend the money to go to a bigger batch size either BIAB or 3 vessel.
Yes, I know you recirculate the first couple quarts to settle the grain bed. I would use the 5 gallon pot for just that purpose and then after the bed is settled I was going to empty the mash tun into the pot and then set it aside....take my boil kettle with hot sparge water and add that to the tun, then pour the first run into the boil kettle and empty the second run....then proceed to boil. The pot I have is just very small and its really not safe to use past 4 gallons so I was worried that my first drain of the mash tun might be too much. As long as I typically don't go over 4 gallons on my first run I should be okay.
If you have 10 pounds of grain and a 4-gallon strike, you'll draw off about 2 3/8 gallons of first runnings. The rest is absorbed by the grain and what's either in the mash tun's dead space or still barely draining.
The sparge water will produce the same volume of second runnings as the grain has already been saturated.
This is the info I was looking for, thanks.
I have one more question. Is there any practical reason to have a thermometer on your boil kettle? I have never used one with extract brewing. I just heated until I got a nice steady rolling boil. I'm looking into 10 gallon brew kettles and if I don't need the thermometer id rather save the money and just do without.
The only time I would worry about it is the mash tun. However a probe thermometer would work or If you have a meat or candy thermometer you can measure the temp of the boil kettle pretty easy for strike water. I'm using an infrared and it seems to be fairly accurate.
I have a digital probe thermometer for that...what I was really wondering was there any advantage to knowing what your temperature is during boil...as far as beer quality goes.. I know some people increase the severity of the boil and claim that it helps with clarity...But would actually knowing the temperature matter with something like this?
I had one on my 8-gallon kettle, which I sold to buy my new Spike 10-gallon kettle--on which I also have a thermometer.
I like being able to glance at the kettle while it's heating strike water or sparge water*** to see how close it is to my desired temp--i don't have to babysit it, I don't have to keep sticking a thermometer in it to see where I'm at. Meanwhile I can do other brewing-related things, increasing my time efficiency. When I'm a few degrees away from boiling, I'm right there ready to catch any eruptions.
I also use it a LOT when my wort is coming to a boil. Nothing worse that missing the fact the boil has begun and seeing that stuff boil over onto the floor, the burner--it's a mess. So, I can, at a glance, figure out where I am. While that kettle is heating to a boil, I can be doing other things.
Then, when I'm chilling, it's easy to see when I've hit my target. My kettle has the articulated face thermometer so it can be tilted up so I can easily see it while standing over the kettle stirring the wort to help the chiller.
For me, that thermometer is absolutely a must-have. For others, who knows?
***you can sparge with cold water if you want. I always heat mine to about 160-170 simply to get a head start on the boil--the second runnings come out about 150 degrees or more. But there's little evidence it turns out very differently.
I had no clue you could cold sparge. This doesn't effect the efficiency at all? And also I wasn't thinking about the cooling aspect of having a thermometer. I could see where it would be nice to have in that regard. At this point I'm not even sure if I'm going to go the plastic cooler route. I know for sure ill be wanting to play around with step mashing and I'm the kind of person that likes to buy quality items once and be done. I know you can step mash with the cooler but that just seems like such a pain. Ive heard people really struggle with direct heat but I would think if you just stir and keep a close eye on things it wouldn't be all that bad...maybe I'm wrong...so now I'm stuck between a regular kettle mash tun or a stainless steel mash tun with insulation that I couldn't direct fire....so many options... BTW spike brewing was the way I was going to go for my kettles...good choice. Also I see spike has two options for thermometer placement...it would seem like you would want the thermometer in the middle to get a better reading or is the bottom better so you don't burn your mash?
Owly055
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You can spend a lot of money, and create a complex system for all grain brewing......... or you can keep it cheap and simple......... One does not produce better beer than the other. If you are in to the "process" aspect, by all means spend (waste) lots of money. If all you want to do is brew excellent beer....... go BIAB for far less money and no loss in quality.
H.W.
H.W.
Not, apparently. There's this sense, I think, that you need warm or hot water to "dissolve" the sugar--except it's already dissolved into the water, and you're just rinsing that sugar-laden water from the spent grain.
Do I have to have such a thermometer? No. But I find it to be something I'm consulting all the time.
I thought about step mashing, but I'm not sure I'll ever fool with it. I'm to a point where I'm brewing what I consider to be very good beer--not sure that with the modern malts a step mash really matters any more.
Nobody should draw any grand conclusions from the way I'm currently producing beer. I lucked into the deal of a lifetime where I bought a ferm chamber (read: refrigerator), Inkbird to control it, fastrack bottle system, mash tun, a whole bunch of bottles, I won't go further, but I had $125 in what had to be nearly $400 worth of stuff.
That was the kick I needed to get going in all-grain. I was going to do BIAB but I needed a large kettle. My cooler mash tun let me get going without any delay.
Neither reason, actually. I bought the 10-gallon Spike kettle because it would allow me to do BIAB, and the problem w/ my previous kettle was the thermometer probe stuck out 3" into the kettle. Imagine trying to hoist a brew bag past that. I wanted that thermometer probe toward the bottom so it wouldn't interfere with that.
I will, over the next month, give BIAB a try. I have my wilserbag, a hoist, a properly-sized kettle, and 29 batches under my belt, 26 of which are all-grain. If it's significantly faster and produces just as good beer, I'm all for it.
BTW, there's a sort of interim step by which you can use a BIAB bag to line a mash tun cooler, mash in there as per normal, then hoist the bag leaving behind the wort. I may have gone this way in lieu of a traditional cooler mash tun, but of course, I had a mash tun ready to go from my buy of a lifetime.
madscientist451
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You don't have to hoist the bag, just drain the wort the same way you would if you had a false bottom in the cooler. You can fly sparge or batch sparge (or no sparge) with the bag in the cooler. When the wort is drained/sparged, pull the bag out and dump the grain.
I don't really see how a nice mash tun and a nice kettle would be deemed as a waste of money? Nice things stand the test of time and have resell value. We live in a throwaway society and I try to avoid contributing to that as much as possible. That's why I bought my refrigerator used off craigs list. I have looked at the brew in a bag method and it seems like such a mess having to prop the bag up on something and then clean all the spent grains out of the bag...seems like it would just be much simpler to wash a mash tun out and throw the spent grains in the garden...but that's just my opinion and we all know there is more than one way to skin a cat. I wouldn't just consider something a waste of money because you don't feel its necessary. Do you need RIMS to make good beer? no...but people really like using it...If it makes them happy and it works good for them its not a waste of money.
I feel the same way. I am testing a DIY RIMS system now but I started with mr. Beer and a 5 gallon mash tun. I didn't want to mess with a bag. Dump the grains outside and animals will eat it or use it for compost. Sell to a pet food store for dog biscuits, whatever works. Rinse out the mash tun and you're done.
Anyway, inaugural brew in the system in a modified boulevard wheat clone. Light in grain because I have no idea how much this thing will hold... maybe next time will be 16lbs.
I've used a distant variation of this. I used to do the normal vorlauf procedure, then when I was thinking about using one of these bags to line the mash tun, it hit me: all I need to do is tie a hop sock over my torpedo screen, and easy peasy.
That hop sock helps me set the grain bed quickly as I draw off the wort, and I have a completely open ball valve in under a minute, usually.
We toss that hop sock into the laundry, and it comes back nice and clean and ready to go again. I've been getting about five brews out of each one before it starts to fray.
Lots of really great ideas here. homebrewtalk never lets me down. I'm pretty confident I'm going to go the stainless steel route. I'm sure the cooler would work fine but I would rather use something that is designed to have hot liquids in it.
Wildcat_Brewing
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I collect my first runnings in my 10 gallon kettle and use my old 5 gallon pot for the sparge water, that way you minimize transfer of the wort. You can hold about 4.5 gallons in the pot because you aren't boiling it and if you need more heat in a kitchen pot. I batch sparge and usually add the extra water at the end of the mash for a mash out. I've never had a kettle thermometer and spent the extra money on a good pen thermometer to measure mash temps accurately (thermapen on clearance). Going all grain was a great investment and you take charge of the process.
This is essentially the route I am going to be taking. I was just looking at my big white buckets and thinking I could probably capture the whole entire run in one of those buckets and then remove the false bottom from my mash tun...install a side racking arm and pour the wort into the kettle and start my boil...ive heard the hot side aeration debate but I honestly don't know if I buy it. My only concern would be that those brew buckets aren't designed to have hot wort in them....so many options in life lol.
Rather than a 10 gallon beverage cooler and a FB, I would suggest the 52 qt extreme cooler from Walmart st 23 bucks and a stainless water heater braid, an excellent batch sparge tun.
Going that route you'll save enough money to also buy a BIAB bag, and can then later sell the cooler MT on the classifieds here lol jk.
Using 2 coolest is kinda silly imho, too much transferring of liquids. One benefit of BIAB is that your not transferring any liquid, but rather just removing the spent grain and "carrying on", very simple.
Your gonna need a kettle larger than 5 gal, but you can certainly get started Doing smaller batches or topping the fermenter on mid to lower gravity beers.
Going that route you'll save enough money to also buy a BIAB bag, and can then later sell the cooler MT on the classifieds here lol jk.
Using 2 coolest is kinda silly imho, too much transferring of liquids. One benefit of BIAB is that your not transferring any liquid, but rather just removing the spent grain and "carrying on", very simple.
Your gonna need a kettle larger than 5 gal, but you can certainly get started Doing smaller batches or topping the fermenter on mid to lower gravity beers.
yea, I don't think ill be using the buckets.. I may just go ahead and buy a kettle and try biab...I may even have a bag already that would work for it. I guess if I don't like it I can always just switch over to batch sparging.
Owly055
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"I don't brew because I don't have time"......."It takes so long to haul out the equipment and set it up, clean up and put it all away......" ETC.
Comments like that are common excuses for not brewing. The simpler it is to get set up to brew, and the faster and more painless it is, the more likely you are to do it. Most folks find it fun and exciting....... at first, and for some of us it remains fun and exciting, but many people lose interest....... there is a lot of really good beer out there these days, and it's not a cheap hobby........ and again there's the time factor. Wouldn't you really rather be out there fly fishing ( substitute your passion here).on that nice Saturday afternoon?
There are lots of activities out there to consume our time. The faster and easier brewing is, the less hassle is involved, and the easier it is to fit it into our typically busy life style, the more likely we are to do it.
I spent many months refining methods so I could brew in very small time periods for this reason........... Not so much that I personally don't have time, but because so many people I know claim not to have the time. My last all grain brew took under 90 minutes...... Impossible you say? I heated strike water while crushing grain. My crusher is set up in the shed all the time, and my brewing stock pot is right next to the kitchen. I doughed in and insulated the kettle, ate lunch and took off to work for the afternoon. Came back and lifted the bag and set it in a colander over the kettle, cranking the heat all the way up while squeezing the bag, dropped in my floating 2500 watt heater, and measured hops. Time to boil was extremely fast. Boiled 30 minutes and took 6 minutes to chill to pitch temp. Clean up was done whenever there was something to clean and time to do it..... during the boil mostly. A short piece of garden hose with a quick connect snaps on in place of my shower head, and the final clean up is done in the bath tub with a garden spray gun and hot water....... and a scrubby for the inside of the boil kettle. A few steps from the kitchen, the tub makes a great clean up sink.... it's the work of minutes when set up this way.
I've developed the 20-30 minute mash, built and extra large chiller and floating heater, the quick attach shower head, etc, all in pursuit of the goal of minimum brewing day time. I've also been doing no boil no chill on some of my brews with excellent results. A 20 minute mash followed by heating to 170 and holding for awhile while a small "hop decoction" is being boiled in a sauce pan on the side. The whole process takes significantly less than an hour!! The beer is excellent, but not crystal clear.
There is no excuse for not brewing if you REALLY want to brew. The more complexity that's involved, the less likely you are to brew. In pursuit of ever shorter brew days, I've been accused several times of not liking to brew..........which is anything but the truth......... How many people do you know that brew once a week? I don't brew the way most folks do.......but I brew often. How many members can say they made their first homebrew in 1969?
H.W.
Comments like that are common excuses for not brewing. The simpler it is to get set up to brew, and the faster and more painless it is, the more likely you are to do it. Most folks find it fun and exciting....... at first, and for some of us it remains fun and exciting, but many people lose interest....... there is a lot of really good beer out there these days, and it's not a cheap hobby........ and again there's the time factor. Wouldn't you really rather be out there fly fishing ( substitute your passion here).on that nice Saturday afternoon?
There are lots of activities out there to consume our time. The faster and easier brewing is, the less hassle is involved, and the easier it is to fit it into our typically busy life style, the more likely we are to do it.
I spent many months refining methods so I could brew in very small time periods for this reason........... Not so much that I personally don't have time, but because so many people I know claim not to have the time. My last all grain brew took under 90 minutes...... Impossible you say? I heated strike water while crushing grain. My crusher is set up in the shed all the time, and my brewing stock pot is right next to the kitchen. I doughed in and insulated the kettle, ate lunch and took off to work for the afternoon. Came back and lifted the bag and set it in a colander over the kettle, cranking the heat all the way up while squeezing the bag, dropped in my floating 2500 watt heater, and measured hops. Time to boil was extremely fast. Boiled 30 minutes and took 6 minutes to chill to pitch temp. Clean up was done whenever there was something to clean and time to do it..... during the boil mostly. A short piece of garden hose with a quick connect snaps on in place of my shower head, and the final clean up is done in the bath tub with a garden spray gun and hot water....... and a scrubby for the inside of the boil kettle. A few steps from the kitchen, the tub makes a great clean up sink.... it's the work of minutes when set up this way.
I've developed the 20-30 minute mash, built and extra large chiller and floating heater, the quick attach shower head, etc, all in pursuit of the goal of minimum brewing day time. I've also been doing no boil no chill on some of my brews with excellent results. A 20 minute mash followed by heating to 170 and holding for awhile while a small "hop decoction" is being boiled in a sauce pan on the side. The whole process takes significantly less than an hour!! The beer is excellent, but not crystal clear.
There is no excuse for not brewing if you REALLY want to brew. The more complexity that's involved, the less likely you are to brew. In pursuit of ever shorter brew days, I've been accused several times of not liking to brew..........which is anything but the truth......... How many people do you know that brew once a week? I don't brew the way most folks do.......but I brew often. How many members can say they made their first homebrew in 1969?
H.W.
I really enjoy brewing...I'm not fed up with it one bit. The reward is worth the work. I just built a complete fermentation fridge for 50 bucks and I have a few more gadgets and batches under my belt than the beginning brewer. I'm just very cautious about how I spend my money. Not being wealthy tends to do that to a person.
Look on Craigslist and classifieds here for equipment. CL always has some brewing things, and then suddenly there's that larger kettle for the right price.
There's nothing wrong with boiling in 2 smaller kettles, my 8 gallon kettle can't handle a 6 gallon AG batch either so 1-1.5 gallon of 3rd runnings gets boiled on the side (stove), and added to the main boil later, when that has evaporated enough.
BIAB is a great way, but... you'll need a larger kettle for 5 gallon batches or brew smaller ones, as was suggested before, and can give you more variety. If you can get your grain milled fine enough your mash efficiency can be close to 90%, even higher. The bag is a perfect lauter system.
Using a (larger) dedicated cooler mash tun is a good option too. I would not spend money or time on fly sparging or mash recirculation. Batch sparging is easier and faster. If you really need to do a step mash or a decoction, use your kettle. then use the cooler mash tun as a lautering vessel. A 52 qt rectangular cooler can handle a 5 or 6 gallon 1.090 grain batch easily. The grain can be a bit finer for faster conversion and higher efficiency (80-85%).
If you're handy and inventive, and have some patience to wait for the right deal to come along, brewing doesn't have to cost a lot of money. Buying the right equipment once is better than having to "upgrade" perpetually. That does not mean there's no room for improvement, it just doesn't have to have a fancy name or a high price tag.
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