Glycerine / Glycerol in beer

[Queequeg]

So wine makers have been using this to improve mouthfeel so can it be used for beer? It supposedly smooths out the flavor and make the drink fuller. It can in large doses add sweetness but otherwise it's tasteless and odorless.

You would need somewhere between 10mg/ml-20mg/ml, so that's 190-380g per keg. Maybe less if you have a high concentration glycerol producing yeast and/or other mouthfeel promoting ingredients/practices.

I am considering it as a substitute for lactose in sweet stout in an attempt to get crazy body and viscosity.

Thoughts? I am tempted to pull the trigger on a 1L 99.9% purity stuff on ebay and try it as a post fermentation additive.

 

[bierhaus15]

In very small amounts it can add some mouthfeel to beers that are already thin and flavorless. But we're not talking about a significant change. When used in quantity, it can add an unpleasant bitterness and strange mouthfeel that is not at all natural. It also seems to have an effect with highly hopped beers. I would stick with using lactose.

 

[Queequeg]

I pulled the trigger because it was only 7 quid and I can always use it for microbanking yeast.

I will do some testing and report back.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Just figure out a dosing rate and go with it. It's a nifty idea and I don't see why not?

 

[Queequeg]

I was thinking of pouring a few 100ml samples and add 0.25ml, 0.5ml, 0.75ml, 1ml etc. Might do a triangle test on the final volume with a few friends

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Go for it!

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Any follow-up here?

 

[Vale71]

Considering you already have over 1 g/l of glycerol in a standard ale-type beer I doubt such tiny additions will have had any measurable effect on mouthfeel.

Edit: sorry, I misread. I read 10 mg/l where it is actually 10 mg/ml which is actually quite a lot of glycerol.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Considering you already have over 1 g/l of glycerol in a standard ale-type beer I doubt such tiny additions will have had any measurable effect on mouthfeel.

Edit: sorry, I misread. I read 10 mg/l where it is actually 10 mg/ml which is actually quite a lot of glycerol.

I find it interesting how real science differs with your opinions. The discussion section states that both glycerols and beta-glucans are far more important to mouthfeel than dextrins.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1989.tb04650.x

 

[Vale71]

I find it interesting how real science differs with your opinions...
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1989.tb04650.x

Huh? I think you might have mistaken me for some else...

 

[lump42]

I find it interesting how real science differs with your opinions. The discussion section states that both glycerols and beta-glucans are far more important to mouthfeel than dextrins.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1989.tb04650.x

I did not find in that article where they concluded that glycerol and beta-glucans are significant contributors to mouthfeel (viscosity). Where did you see it? In case I missed it the only reference to glycerol I found was this in the discussion but that is their opinion; "We suspect that b-glucans, ethanol, glycerol, glycoproteins and melanoidins are more significant contributors to beer body" They did reference other studies in the intro that attributed b-glucans (along with ethanol, dextrins, carbohydrates, proteins, melanoidins, and original gravity) to mouthfeel, but those statements don't provide any comparitive effects of glycerol to the other factors.

Vale71 didn't seem off from the real science, just didn't cite sources. This report measured the glycerol levels in 15 sacc. fermented beers ranged from 1280 - 2913 mg/l glycerol. This research review article states the body threshold was 10g/l glycerol. His original statement of 10mg/l would not have met the threshold but he did correct it (10mg/ml = 10 g/l).

 

[Vale71]

I'm afraid I've created a bit of confusion. In my statement I said "over 1 g/l" which is correct, the exact amount of course depends on the strength of the beer and some other factors. I did misread the original post though and thought the OP planned on adding 10-20 mg per liter, which is really too small of an addition to be expected to make any sort of impact since there is already approximately over 100 times that amount in beer as it is. My mistake is understandable as concentrations in the metric system are usually expressed as 'per liter', so my brain just assumed that and bypassed what my eyes were actually seeing. What the OP actually proposed was to add a whopping 10 to 20 grams per liter, which will certainly have an impact on sensory perception, the question is just what kind of impact exactly.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I was making the presumption that the reference to "body" in the cited peer reviewed article was the same as "mouthfeel".

Vale71, I clearly misunderstood you to imply that additional glycerol (above that typically found present within beer) would have no positive effect upon body/mouthfeel.

With inspiration from Scott Janish, I'm of the opinion that increasing Beta-Glucan is a major pathway to increased body/mouthfeel. Oats seem to have an abundance of Beta-Glucan. But even there, Scott Janish is on record as stating that unless one adds 18% by grist weight of flaked oats (or their equivalent in other forms of oats) it is unlikely that mouthfeel increase will factually be noticed. After adding 2 Lbs. to the mash of my recent Stout, I can attest that I'm perceiving no particular benefit at the level of 2 Lbs. in overall 15 Lbs. of grist, or at 13-1/3 percent.

That said, I see nothing wrong with the OP chasing Glycerol to this end. Mouthfeel is indeed a difficult subject, as can be attested even within peer reviewed literature.

 

[lump42]

With inspiration from Scott Janish, I'm of the opinion that increasing Beta-Glucan is a major pathway to increased body/mouthfeel. Oats seem to have an abundance of Beta-Glucan. But even there, Scott Janish is on record as stating that unless one adds 18% by grist weight of flaked oats (or their equivalent in other forms of oats) it is unlikely that mouthfeel increase will factually be noticed. After adding 2 Lbs. to the mash of my recent Stout, I can attest that I'm perceiving no particular benefit at the level of 2 Lbs. in overall 15 Lbs. of grist, or at 13-1/3 percent.

I would think that it would be style and gravity dependent. 10-15% in a stout that already has a larger perceived body may not have a noticeable difference, but the 15% I add to my 3.4% mild makes a big difference.

The effect of glycerol may would be style/gravity dependent as well. To really boost the body, it may take a multiple approaches at once.

 

[Queequeg]

I tried it and the effect is dramatic. I put 6.5ml in 19L of sweet stout, this as it turns out is slightly too much, as it adds an ever so slightly synthetic note. However it does round out the beer and make is super full and smooth. Much more than increasing gravity or adjunct content does. I my next repeat brew I will be using probably 3ml as in testing this gave most of the same effect but without any synthetic flavours.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I tried it and the effect is dramatic. I put 6.5ml in 19L of sweet stout, this as it turns out is slightly too much, as it adds an ever so slightly synthetic note. However it does round out the beer and make is super full and smooth. Much more than increasing gravity or adjunct content does. I my next repeat brew I will be using probably 3ml as in testing this gave most of the same effect but without any synthetic flavours.

Thanks much for this information!

 

[lump42]

I tried it and the effect is dramatic. I put 6.5ml in 19L of sweet stout, this as it turns out is slightly too much, as it adds an ever so slightly synthetic note. However it does round out the beer and make is super full and smooth. Much more than increasing gravity or adjunct content does. I my next repeat brew I will be using probably 3ml as in testing this gave most of the same effect but without any synthetic flavours.

That's great! It may be too small of volumes, but you could try and dosing small samples, then scale up to the whole batch. Or if the volumes are too small, you could do serial dilutions to help get where you want.

 

[Queequeg]

I did exactly that and still slightly overdosed. It's totally drinkable, just not the perfection which I am after

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[Hazarmaveth]

I've been experimenting with glycerin additions to finished beer, hadn't seen this thread until today. I can fairly easily pick out the odd beer in a triangle test with a 1%-by-volume glycerin addition (roughly 10g/L, if I did the math right) in a NEIPA that's already got a pretty thick mouthfeel. It makes the beer creamy and "slippery" in a way that I feel is distinct from the effect of dextrines or lactose. It's more subtle than I was hoping, but I can't detect any side effects aside from maybe a little bit of sweetness. I'll probably use it occasionally for whole batches, since I don't see a downside.

The next potential mouthfeel enhancer I intend to try is xanthan gum.

 

[Queequeg]

Just a word of caution when I used too much in the testing the glycerol adds a nasty meaty quality that makes the beer completely undrinkable. Also volume additions seem different between forum users so I would assume this is down to yeast, beer style and glycerol concentration used. So just be careful that all I'm saying.