Gluten Free might just be getting better! A LOT BETTER!
- Thread starter Jaybird
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John:
Can you explain your technique as If I were 5 years old? I'm a pretty experienced all grain brewer and I am definitely not groking what is going on here. I am presuming that you are (or that you are planning on) mashing in at 150-152F. Then you are raising the mash temperature to ~160F by decocting twice (without boiling - I get that (thanks, Jay!)). Nevertheless, I don't understand - why the decoction? If the gelatinization temperature is around 150F why all this extra work? Please help me b/c I would really like to brew this beer! Thanks!
Can you explain your technique as If I were 5 years old? I'm a pretty experienced all grain brewer and I am definitely not groking what is going on here. I am presuming that you are (or that you are planning on) mashing in at 150-152F. Then you are raising the mash temperature to ~160F by decocting twice (without boiling - I get that (thanks, Jay!)). Nevertheless, I don't understand - why the decoction? If the gelatinization temperature is around 150F why all this extra work? Please help me b/c I would really like to brew this beer! Thanks!
ricemaltster
Active Member
Hi Hipturn,
I think this question is aimed at me, so I will answer as best I can. I am a brewer that works as much from gut as cookbook. I just feel my best beers have come from doing decoction mash where several portions of the mash are heated above gelatinization temperature and returned to the main mash. This may be a way of slowly raising the temperature of the mash and allow enzyme activity throughout the mash. I don't have any hard evidence that a single infusion mash will not work, my experience has just been better with the decoction method. I don't like doing the extra work either, but I like the results. Information on rice malting and mashing for beer production is extremely limited as far as my explorations have gone. We are all exploring a rather new frontier where all of our experiences can build better gluten free beers. I personally hope, that in the near future, rice breeders will develop varieties that have larger seed and greater enzyme activity.
Let me know if this does not answer your question. And please let us know if a simpler mash is working for you.
Cheers,
Jim
I think this question is aimed at me, so I will answer as best I can. I am a brewer that works as much from gut as cookbook. I just feel my best beers have come from doing decoction mash where several portions of the mash are heated above gelatinization temperature and returned to the main mash. This may be a way of slowly raising the temperature of the mash and allow enzyme activity throughout the mash. I don't have any hard evidence that a single infusion mash will not work, my experience has just been better with the decoction method. I don't like doing the extra work either, but I like the results. Information on rice malting and mashing for beer production is extremely limited as far as my explorations have gone. We are all exploring a rather new frontier where all of our experiences can build better gluten free beers. I personally hope, that in the near future, rice breeders will develop varieties that have larger seed and greater enzyme activity.
Let me know if this does not answer your question. And please let us know if a simpler mash is working for you.
Cheers,
Jim
So... has anyone taken the plunge and brewed with this stuff?
I just finished a brew, and am thinking about trying my hand at a small GF batch with this rice. Maybe a simple pale ale/bitter style to get my feet wet.
I can mash about 5-6 pounds of barley, so I'm thinking of just mashing the same in rice, calling it 2 gallons and seeing what I end up getting as far as fermentables.
I just finished a brew, and am thinking about trying my hand at a small GF batch with this rice. Maybe a simple pale ale/bitter style to get my feet wet.
I can mash about 5-6 pounds of barley, so I'm thinking of just mashing the same in rice, calling it 2 gallons and seeing what I end up getting as far as fermentables.
ricemaltster
Active Member
Maybe Legume or Osedax can comment on this. It appears they have the most experience with my malt as far as this forum goes. I obviously can't be impartial on this point.....I think I have some fine roasted malts.
Ricemaltster
Ricemaltster
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My experience with these malts is still limited, but I think they are very promising.
I have made 2 batches with this rice malt, in both I have used only specialty (roasted) malts, and have been using adjuncts for the base fermentables ( this excessive use of adjuncts is causing diacetyl issues, but I do not think this has anything to do with the rice malt).
I have used the biscut rice, crystal rice, and james brown rice, and am impressed with the flavors coming frm them. Complex and malty in a way that home toasted GF grains are not.
If you cant mash a huge grain bill, you might do a partial mash. Do a mini mash with 4 or 6 pounds of rice malt (dont be afraid to add enzymes to make the mash protocol easier), and use some rice syrup to bump up the gravity.
I think this is what I will do for my next experiment.
I have made 2 batches with this rice malt, in both I have used only specialty (roasted) malts, and have been using adjuncts for the base fermentables ( this excessive use of adjuncts is causing diacetyl issues, but I do not think this has anything to do with the rice malt).
I have used the biscut rice, crystal rice, and james brown rice, and am impressed with the flavors coming frm them. Complex and malty in a way that home toasted GF grains are not.
If you cant mash a huge grain bill, you might do a partial mash. Do a mini mash with 4 or 6 pounds of rice malt (dont be afraid to add enzymes to make the mash protocol easier), and use some rice syrup to bump up the gravity.
I think this is what I will do for my next experiment.
Thanks so much for chiming in. I currently mash in a 2-gal cooler, which allows me to mash about 5 gallons of barley at 1.25qt/l. Without having better data on mash thickness, or how much extra volume rice takes up, it's hard to get a handle on how much rice I can expect to be able to mash.
I don't mind experimenting, but any advice in that regard would be great.
I may just mash what I can, and throw in 1lb of rice syrup solids and maybe some maltodextrin and see what happens
.I am mashing BIAB style in my 7.5 gal brewpot.
I could probably mash up to 8 ish pounds (in 5 or so gal of water) with this method. Maybe more, but not easily.
Because the gelitinization temp of this malt is high, I dump grains into 180 degree water in my brew pot (resulting in a 170 degree mash), add termamyl (thermo stable amylase), rest for an hour, drop the temperature to 140 then add AMG-300 (amylase) and mash for another hour. Then pull the bag of spent grains and start my boil. I do not have this totally dialed in yet. I have been hitting my predicted starting gravities spot on, but have been finishing higher than I would like at 1.018 or so. Its a place to start...but my protocol needs more work.
I could probably mash up to 8 ish pounds (in 5 or so gal of water) with this method. Maybe more, but not easily.
Because the gelitinization temp of this malt is high, I dump grains into 180 degree water in my brew pot (resulting in a 170 degree mash), add termamyl (thermo stable amylase), rest for an hour, drop the temperature to 140 then add AMG-300 (amylase) and mash for another hour. Then pull the bag of spent grains and start my boil. I do not have this totally dialed in yet. I have been hitting my predicted starting gravities spot on, but have been finishing higher than I would like at 1.018 or so. Its a place to start...but my protocol needs more work.
Does anybody here have any decent info on the Saccharide profile of extract from Malted Rice? I haven't had any luck finding anything of the sort. Is it similar to the profile from Brown rice Syrup? Do we know?
ricemaltster
Active Member
Leave it to fellow homebrewers to ask the hard questions. I have not had the extracts tested at this point. I guess this will move up the priority list. I have been working toward getting my beers out the door lately.
My malt products are naturally malted and therefore will probably not have exactly the same composition as the brown rice syrups that I believe are all chemically converted. I am still working on building the system to produce malted rice syrup. Hopefully, this will be available in the near future. This has taken more time to achieve than I initially estimated.
My malt products are naturally malted and therefore will probably not have exactly the same composition as the brown rice syrups that I believe are all chemically converted. I am still working on building the system to produce malted rice syrup. Hopefully, this will be available in the near future. This has taken more time to achieve than I initially estimated.
Singletrack
Because it's judgement that defeats us.
Somehow I just know there are evil-doers in a back room somewhere gorging themselves on that delicious gluten that has been removed from my food/beer.
Haha, you asked for it!
I've been doing a lot of research on GF beers, and it occurred to me that this info would be useful. I think it's definitely something worth prioritizing.
ricemaltster
Active Member
OK folks,
Here is an early malt analysis done by Gambrinus Malting of some of my malted rice. I had not produced some of my darker malts at that time. This was a very early analysis. My pale malt has come a long way since this was done, but this will give you a bit of guidance. The attached pdf is from standard congress mash. Please be aware that extract will be substantially lower than barley for several reasons. Like I have mentioned in earlier posts, seed size and hull weight contribute to less potential extract by weight of grain. In addition, rice has not been bred for malting quality and is lower in diastatic power than barley. Think of it as going back to the early days of barley brewing when barley had not been bred for malting quality! I hope this will change as interest in brewing with malted rice increases.
Cheers,
Jim
Here is an early malt analysis done by Gambrinus Malting of some of my malted rice. I had not produced some of my darker malts at that time. This was a very early analysis. My pale malt has come a long way since this was done, but this will give you a bit of guidance. The attached pdf is from standard congress mash. Please be aware that extract will be substantially lower than barley for several reasons. Like I have mentioned in earlier posts, seed size and hull weight contribute to less potential extract by weight of grain. In addition, rice has not been bred for malting quality and is lower in diastatic power than barley. Think of it as going back to the early days of barley brewing when barley had not been bred for malting quality! I hope this will change as interest in brewing with malted rice increases.
Cheers,
Jim
ricemaltster
Active Member
Sorry folks,
Having trouble getting the file uploaded. Will try again soon!
Jim
Having trouble getting the file uploaded. Will try again soon!
Jim
ricemaltster
Active Member
Looks like this old dog may have figured out how to get the attachment accepted. The congress mash for barley may not be appropriate for rice, but at least this will give some indication.
View attachment Malt analysis 2 copy.pdf
View attachment Malt analysis 2 copy.pdf
I just went to the norcal brewing soloutions website to order more biscut and crystal rice... and it says they are both out of stock.
I hope they are out of stock because they are selling so well.
Jaybird, will you be restocking these items in the future?
Also, do you have plans to stock brown rice syrup (not rice syrup solids)?...its good stuff.
Some good amylase (termamyl and AMG300 or similar) woukd be another great addition for the GF folks.
thank you for catering to us!
I hope they are out of stock because they are selling so well.
Jaybird, will you be restocking these items in the future?
Also, do you have plans to stock brown rice syrup (not rice syrup solids)?...its good stuff.
Some good amylase (termamyl and AMG300 or similar) woukd be another great addition for the GF folks.
thank you for catering to us!
OP
OP
We have the Rice its just we are dealing with the milling aspect. YOu can still buy it unmilled. I have look high and low for Brown Rice syrup I can not seem to locate it. Briess stopped making it over 2 years ago. So if you find it its OLD OLD OLD. probably still good just old.
Cheers
Jay
OP
OP
So, anybody had a chance to play around with this stuff yet? I finally have the ability to mash more than a few pounds of grain so I'm seriously considering trying a small batch with this stuff.
Jay, your Gluten Free page appears to be down, and I can't seem to find any similar page on your site. Any ideas?
Jay, your Gluten Free page appears to be down, and I can't seem to find any similar page on your site. Any ideas?
Osedax
Well-Known Member
It's now in with the rest of the malts. Go to "Other Grains" and then rice. However, most of it is sold out and I can't seem to order the stuff I want. Really wanted more of that Gas Hog. Made a great stout last time.
OP
OP
Its all in stock guys. We just cannot mill it any longer. so if you add the un-milled ones to the cart it will allow you to check out.
Sorry for the trouble there.
Cheers
Jay
Jaybird-
Thanks for making these GF rice malts more available to folks outside of Colorado and Portlandia crowds ;-)
Have you given consideration into carrying Lundburg's rice syrup?
I prefer the rice syrup over solids in extract brewing since the syrup has more character.
They are 'just down the road' from you... Just say'n, it'd be rockin' if you did :rockin:
Thanks for making these GF rice malts more available to folks outside of Colorado and Portlandia crowds ;-)
Have you given consideration into carrying Lundburg's rice syrup?
I prefer the rice syrup over solids in extract brewing since the syrup has more character.
They are 'just down the road' from you... Just say'n, it'd be rockin' if you did :rockin:
PhillyBrewer
Active Member
Are you able to post your stout recipe and step-by-step instructions of your process since it turned out great?
Osedax
Well-Known Member
I can and I will. I will attempt to remind myself to upload it tonight when I get home. I will most likely start a new thread so that I don't derail this one.
It is a coffee sweet stout that I have been working on for years. It just took 2nd place out of 43 entries in a local competition. I am pretty proud of it. :beer:
Osedax
Well-Known Member
OP
OP
