Gin Beer

[Owly055]

This is not a new topic.......... but it's been a long time since someone brought it up. This time of year, I love a dry martini after a hot hard day in the sun....... For me a "dry martini" is simply gin out of the freezer over ice....... a decent gin. I don't need to pollute it with vermouth and olive juice. I love the sharp medicinal flavor

This project is a ways off at the moment, I have neither the botanicals, nor the fermenter real estate at the moment.

The foundation beer will be a Mosaic Rye Wit recipe that is very low alcohol. I found it on line a few years ago. One of only two beers I've every brewed, true to an existing recipe........ and I did it TWICE!! A true lawnmower beer. I will fortify this with invert sugar to bring the ABV up to about 8% using invert sugar, at least that's the plan.... I want it strong, and I want it to taste alcoholic. I haven't worked out the botanicals package yet, but have some ideas....... I have more reading to do. The botanicals will probably be steeped in everclear, why buy vodka......... the only real difference is the sugar..... and added a the end of secondary, to taste. It will be outrageously pale, with very little malt presence.... it's about the Mosaic and the botanicals.

Unfortunately the previous discussions along this line ended without any real conclusions........

thoughts anybody??

H.W.

 

[spittybug]

Ever heard of a Finnish Sahti beer? Juniper berries, Belgian funk......First few sips are really good but then the Juniper's anesthetic powers kick in and things change..... as it warms it tastes a bit like motor oil...... I had one at Historic brewing's tap room in Williams, AZ. Great for a taster, but would never want 5 gallons of it!

Moral of the story; Beer is beer. Booze is booze. Age something in a barrel and get a nuance, but much more than that and I think you'll tire of it quickly. IMHO.

 

[triethylborane]

I prefer my gin to have botanical and citrus, so Id add some dried lemon peel to the steeping tea of juniper and ever clear.

 

[Owly055]

I prefer my gin to have botanical and citrus, so Id add some dried lemon peel to the steeping tea of juniper and ever clear.

My favorite gin is Tanqueray Rangpur, which has a distinctive citrus note from the Rangpur Lime (also known as the Kona Lime). There is quite an array of botanicals used in various gins, and in many cases the botanicals are not actually steeped, but extracted by the alcohol vapor passing through them in the still. All the vapor passes through them on the way to the column or worm. There are a number of simple methods of doing steam extraction of essential oils at home, and a procedure like this might be the best way of giving the beer the desired flavor. I helped a friend who was obsessed with moonshining build a simple pot still, which we controlled with a PID controller and a hot plate, producing some pretty decent "shine"..... the heads and tails became "cleaning fluid". The problem as I saw it was that very little flavor actually came through the still. I was always going to build a botanicals basket, but he moved away.......... Making hard liquor really doesn't interest me much. I went through that back in the '70's, and found it boring and time consuming.


H.W.

 

[Mainer]

IIRC, Off Color Brewing did a Juniper Gose a few years ago. Had that botanical bouquet of a nice craft gin, but with the lemony tang of a light sour. It reminded me of drinking a Tom Collins.

 

[Mainer]

IIRC, Off Color Brewing did a Juniper Gose a few years ago. Had that botanical bouquet of a nice craft gin, but with the lemony tang of a light sour. It reminded me of drinking a Tom Collins.

Of course, as a gose, it was very low abv, which is the opposite of you want. But still. It was nice!

 

[triethylborane]

My favorite gin is Tanqueray Rangpur, which has a distinctive citrus note from the Rangpur Lime (also known as the Kona Lime). There is quite an array of botanicals used in various gins, and in many cases the botanicals are not actually steeped, but extracted by the alcohol vapor passing through them in the still. All the vapor passes through them on the way to the column or worm. There are a number of simple methods of doing steam extraction of essential oils at home, and a procedure like this might be the best way of giving the beer the desired flavor. I helped a friend who was obsessed with moonshining build a simple pot still, which we controlled with a PID controller and a hot plate, producing some pretty decent "shine"..... the heads and tails became "cleaning fluid". The problem as I saw it was that very little flavor actually came through the still. I was always going to build a botanicals basket, but he moved away.......... Making hard liquor really doesn't interest me much. I went through that back in the '70's, and found it boring and time consuming.


H.W.

Rangpur is also my favorite, with Beefeater coming in second. I remember Tanqueray Malacca with some great citrus flavor but more of a wet gin, which I didn't care for. Made the mistake of buying New Amsterdam Gin, but it was not dry . . . just sweet and awful.

I made vodka in college using some borrowed lab equipment, it was horrible and the process was not worth the result. Particularly when you could get a handle of vodka for $7.

 

[Owly055]

I'm obviously not looking for "whoop ass" strength like gin....... 80-100 proof, but unlike ordinary beer, I want it to have a distinct alcohol character like hard liquor, something you can't pretend "snuck up on you". The mosaic hops will give it a pleasant fruity character, the botanicals a medicinal quality, the malt, almost an afterthought..... Very little "beer character". It might be fermented out to 12% or more with the right yeast of a very neutral character.
The problem I've had with really strong brews has been a perceived sweetness, hence the use of invert sugar to "dry it out". Of course sugar does not actually "dry it out", but it in theory at least produces just alcohol with none of the residuals that malts leave.
I've been reading a bit about distilling essential oils, and that is more of less the process I'm looking at with the botanicals. Obviously with commercial gin production alcohol and water pass through the botanicals basket as steam. In this case everclear and water. Cheap vodka is not much more than everclear, water, and sugar, and perhaps some very subtle flavorings. The subtle nuances of fine vodkas are not entirely lost on me......I've ranged through the "top shelf" of most hard liquors, but they won't translate through for what I'm wanting to do...... It's simply throwing money away. I started brewing in 1969...... and I don't have a lot of illusions left ;-)

H.W.

 

[Owly055]

Here's the plan for the "foundation" beer. I'll do a well known 2.5 gallon Mosaic Rye Wit recipe that comes out at about 2.33% ABV. 1.5 lbs wheat, .5 pounds rye. 1/8 oz Mosaic @ 20 min, and 1/4 oz @ 5 min. (15.83 IBU) I will ferment this with either US-05, or some of my captured Kiek yeast until fermented out. I'll then add champaign yeast and invert sugar. The invert sugar will amount to a total of 4 - 6 pounds of cane sugar treated with cream of tarter to produce in invert sugar syrup, which will be added in multiple additions. I'll probably use Lalvin EC1118. Sugar additions will be gradual with tasting between additions. I want alcohol to be a dominant "flavor" as it would be with gin or whiskey. That means a very clean primary fermentation..... and secondary. I don't have the environment for 34/70 this time of year, so I'll have to go with a yeast that can ferment clean at 60-65. US-05 fills the bill here, followed by EC1118.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, the botanicals will be steeping in a small amount of Everclear. Everclear is cheaper than vodka, and contains zero sugar or flavor. It will also offer a slight "bump" to the alcohol content. Again, I want this to be strong and taste strong, and have little actual "beer" character. I've been casting about for ways to extract the flavors without actually steeping, perhaps using the same methodology as is used for extracting essential oils..... but I don't have the equipment.

I expect to be able to hit from 14%-17% through fermentation, and am toying with the idea of freeze concentrating some of it just to see what I can get.

Botanicals:

Juniper Berries
Coriander
Angelica Root
Cardamom
various citrus peels (orange, lemon, lime)
Star Anise

The challenge will be to come up with suitable amounts and proportions. For that a bit more reading is necessary........ but I have plenty of time for that. It'll be at least 2 weeks before I have a fermenter available.

I'm toying with the idea of doing the botanicals separately (each one), and having a "tasting session" with friends to decide how much of each, using shot glasses and eyedroppers.

H.W.

 

[anteater8]

If you are planning on creating a tincture with botanicals and everclear, why not just add gin? I've added gin to a raspberry berliner weisse and it came out really well. Super easy too, just add a bit at a time at bottling and taste until it's where you want.

 

[Owly055]

If you are planning on creating a tincture with botanicals and everclear, why not just add gin? I've added gin to a raspberry berliner weisse and it came out really well. Super easy too, just add a bit at a time at bottling and taste until it's where you want.

That's essentially what I'm doing, except that I hope to play with the botanicals to develop a flavor profile I like.

Fortunately the homebrew political correctness police, have not weighed in yet, and home brewing is becoming increasingly flexible in nature. There is a generally recognized "standard" way of making beer with a mash tun, doing a vorlauf and collecting the runnings, then doing an extended boil with hop additions at very specific points in the boil. It has expanded in the last few years to where BIAB, once considered heresy, and not really brewing, is generally accepted. Hopping has changed also, to where concentrates are acceptable for bittering, and people are increasingly using whirlpool, hopback, dry hopping, and even hopping at the tap or in the bottle. Of course things like coriander, cinnamon, star anise, orange peel, and other botanicals are widely accepted also. We have no boil, no chill, and many people using reduced boils of 30 minutes or so instead of the traditional 69 to 90 minute boils. I've successfully pushed mash lengths down as low as 15 minutes producing excellent highly fermentable wort, using my so called "inline mash" where I begin down around 120F, and fast heat, stirring constantly up to 145, then slow heat for my mash phase of 15 minutes, up to 155. I've been accused of not liking to brew, when I worked to bring my brew day down to as little as 90 minutes including clean up...... though I brew weekly, and often more, and my accusers perhaps brew once a month if that. I've been kicked off HBT twice for being controversial.

I'm now working at "fudging the line" between beer brewing and production of harder liquor, and in the process, planning to introduce the flavorings by infusion, or as you call it "tincture"........ both are accurate descriptives. I've decided to brew this beer unhopped, and introduce everything at the end, including the hops via infusion in alcohol.... right into the keg. I'll brew for an ABV of around 15-18% right out of the fermenter, and possibly freeze concentrate up to the high 20's. I'm sure someone will say "it isn't beer", but it will be fermented from malt and flavored with hops, so in my book it's beer. My first attempt is about 2 weeks off, as I don't have a fermenter available at the moment......I also don't have the ingredients yet. Which is a good thing, as it is giving me time to play with ideas.

H.W.

 

[anteater8]

That's essentially what I'm doing, except that I hope to play with the botanicals to develop a flavor profile I like.

Fortunately the homebrew political correctness police, have not weighed in yet, and home brewing is becoming increasingly flexible in nature. There is a generally recognized "standard" way of making beer with a mash tun, doing a vorlauf and collecting the runnings, then doing an extended boil with hop additions at very specific points in the boil. It has expanded in the last few years to where BIAB, once considered heresy, and not really brewing, is generally accepted. Hopping has changed also, to where concentrates are acceptable for bittering, and people are increasingly using whirlpool, hopback, dry hopping, and even hopping at the tap or in the bottle. Of course things like coriander, cinnamon, star anise, orange peel, and other botanicals are widely accepted also. We have no boil, no chill, and many people using reduced boils of 30 minutes or so instead of the traditional 69 to 90 minute boils. I've successfully pushed mash lengths down as low as 15 minutes producing excellent highly fermentable wort, using my so called "inline mash" where I begin down around 120F, and fast heat, stirring constantly up to 145, then slow heat for my mash phase of 15 minutes, up to 155. I've been accused of not liking to brew, when I worked to bring my brew day down to as little as 90 minutes including clean up...... though I brew weekly, and often more, and my accusers perhaps brew once a month if that. I've been kicked off HBT twice for being controversial.

I'm now working at "fudging the line" between beer brewing and production of harder liquor, and in the process, planning to introduce the flavorings by infusion, or as you call it "tincture"........ both are accurate descriptives. I've decided to brew this beer unhopped, and introduce everything at the end, including the hops via infusion in alcohol.... right into the keg. I'll brew for an ABV of around 15-18% right out of the fermenter, and possibly freeze concentrate up to the high 20's. I'm sure someone will say "it isn't beer", but it will be fermented from malt and flavored with hops, so in my book it's beer. My first attempt is about 2 weeks off, as I don't have a fermenter available at the moment......I also don't have the ingredients yet. Which is a good thing, as it is giving me time to play with ideas.

H.W.

I'm all about doing everything within our limitations as homebrewers. I think tincture sounds like a good route if you want exact control over the botanicals (I wouldn't know enough to trust myself over a gin maker). You mentioned it will be hopless, are you going to add some botanicals in the boil for bitterness? And if you're shooting for 15-18%, have you considered the DFH 120 Min or Black Tuesday method of brewing a 1.100 O.G. beer and feeding it sugar every 12 hours during fermentation?

 

[Owly055]

I'm all about doing everything within our limitations as homebrewers. I think tincture sounds like a good route if you want exact control over the botanicals (I wouldn't know enough to trust myself over a gin maker). You mentioned it will be hopless, are you going to add some botanicals in the boil for bitterness? And if you're shooting for 15-18%, have you considered the DFH 120 Min or Black Tuesday method of brewing a 1.100 O.G. beer and feeding it sugar every 12 hours during fermentation?

I'm not familiar with the protocols you mention, but I suspect that my plan is somewhat similar.

I plan to keep the gravity down, starting very low.... about 1.03 through the first phase while the yeast is consuming the malt, then gradually ramping up to around 1.050, and trying to stay in that range, gradually adding sugar and yeast nutrient agitating daily, and oxygenating frequently. It will be fermented in my pump house, where the temps remain from 60-65 The EC1118 will go in after about 2 weeks, allowing the 05 to do it's work first on the malt sugars. Wine yeasts tend to kill off beer yeasts. STC 1000 (fungal amylase) will go into the fermenter with the wort from the beginning. It is a product that will continue converting sugars for greater fermentability at fermentation temps. It works!! I've mashed hot and fast and still gotten a nice dry beer with this stuff.
The problem I see is maintaining reasonable sanitation with the multiple additions, agitation, aeration, etc. Adding the invert syrup hot via a large syringe inserted into the fermentation lock grommet, and oxygenating via a sterile wand through the same opening should help.

My last attempt at high gravity was not a success....... I hit my gravity, but the beer was not an appealing flavor at all. I'm seriously considering using no hops at all except at the very end. I'm looking at pretty low IBUs, and I expect most of the hops used during the boil would be wasted, with the flavor gone by the end of fermentation anyway, as this will likely go on for several months. I might just dry hop, or infuse.

What started out as a simple project seems to be getting more complex ;-)

H.W.

 

[anteater8]

I'm not familiar with the protocols you mention, but I suspect that my plan is somewhat similar.

I plan to keep the gravity down, starting very low.... about 1.03 through the first phase while the yeast is consuming the malt, then gradually ramping up to around 1.050, and trying to stay in that range, gradually adding sugar and yeast nutrient agitating daily, and oxygenating frequently. It will be fermented in my pump house, where the temps remain from 60-65 The EC1118 will go in after about 2 weeks, allowing the 05 to do it's work first on the malt sugars. Wine yeasts tend to kill off beer yeasts. STC 1000 (fungal amylase) will go into the fermenter with the wort from the beginning. It is a product that will continue converting sugars for greater fermentability at fermentation temps. It works!! I've mashed hot and fast and still gotten a nice dry beer with this stuff.
The problem I see is maintaining reasonable sanitation with the multiple additions, agitation, aeration, etc. Adding the invert syrup hot via a large syringe inserted into the fermentation lock grommet, and oxygenating via a sterile wand through the same opening should help.

My last attempt at high gravity was not a success....... I hit my gravity, but the beer was not an appealing flavor at all. I'm seriously considering using no hops at all except at the very end. I'm looking at pretty low IBUs, and I expect most of the hops used during the boil would be wasted, with the flavor gone by the end of fermentation anyway, as this will likely go on for several months. I might just dry hop, or infuse.

What started out as a simple project seems to be getting more complex ;-)

H.W.

This might be useful: http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/03/120-minute-your-newborn-baby.html

I've heard of other people using this method successfully. I haven't tried it but it seems like the way to go for 16%+ beers.

 

[Owly055]

This might be useful: http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/03/120-minute-your-newborn-baby.html

I've heard of other people using this method successfully. I haven't tried it but it seems like the way to go for 16%+ beers.

Thanks......... that has some useful information. I like the idea of daily gravity readings, also of maintaining the gravity within fairly tight tolerances. Again there are significant sanitation issues. I'm running kombucha, keifer, and sourdough in close proximity to my brewing, but interestingly have almost no issues.. but I'm pretty careful. I should be the Typhoid Annie of home brewing, but I'll have an issue about once a year. Not bad considering the fact that I brew MORE than once a week. Lately it's been "back to back" brews about every 10 days. Plenty of people brew more beer than I do, but almost nobody brews more often...........Sanitation is second nature.
I'd love to have a Tilt........but the cost doesn't justify it. In my small batch brewing, I have found that hydrometers are pretty much redundant....... I watch what is happening in the fermenter, and occasionally draw a tiny sample from the spigot at the tail end of fermentation. Any brewer worth his salt can taste the attenuation. Taste the unfermented sugars. As my chemist / pharmacist friends say, the nose and the taste buds the amazing tools for chemical analysis. Capable of detecting nuances and quantities that only the most sensitive lab equipment is capable of detecting. There is a reason so many industries use human tasters............

H.W.

 

[Owly055]

My procedure will be to mash at 50% volume, leaving room for liquid invert sugar additions. No hops will be used until fermentation is completed.
I'm in the process of building a still for steam extraction of essential oils based on a small stainless steel pressure cooker with a botanicals basket. I don't have a condenser built yet, and may just buy a glass condenser and glass separating funnel. The hope is that I will be able to steam extract essential oils from juniper, some hops, orange peel, lemon peel, star anise, cardamom, cinnamon stick, and a bit of black peppercorn. This will be added after fermentation is complete to close to 18%. I'm hoping by that time to have some fresh hops, as my plants look like they may finally yield some cones this year. The native vitality of hops looks like it may finally overcome my notorious "brown thumb".

The initial brew will be a one gallon brew, with 1.5 pounds wheat malt and .5 pounds of rye malt for an OG of 1.057, which will be fully fermented out with US-05..... about 2 weeks. At that time, I will begin adding invert sugar syrup, and pitch EC 118 champagne yeast, trying to keep the gravity down to under 1.020. The plan is to add a total of about 5 pounds of inverted cane sugar over a period of weeks, the additions corresponding to the gravity. The additions will be a syrup, and if I plan it correctly, the volume will climb to my final 2 gallons. Yeast nutrient will be added, and I'll keep an oxygen bottle right there for frequent oxygenation.

I plan to simply float my hydrometer in the fermenter, which is a glass ice tea dispenser.


H.W.

 

[Owly055]

I'm entering "stage II" of my fermentation today. I've racked into a clean fermenter and taken a gravity reading after two weeks or ordinary beer fermentation. This would be "tertiary fermentation". I inverted 5 pounds of table sugar using minimal water and cream of tartar. It was boiled down to 130F, making a thick syrup, then diluted by pouring into hot water to give me 1 gallon of light syrup. It began the process with one gallon of unhopped beer. I will gradually add the gallon of syrup, which by my calculation using Brewer's Friend, will give me about 18% ABV at the end of fermentation. The first addition will be about a pint, which will bump the current gravity to about 1.030. This will be an estimated volume as poured from a growler.
The liquid level will increase to 2 gallons over time as I make my additions of syrup, mostly in half pint quantities based on gravity readings taken every couple of days. Yeast energizer and champagne yeast were added. Oxygenation will also be about every two days. Airstone, hose, and fitting for the regulator have been boiled, and soaked in star san. The oxygen bottle, a spare welding bottle, will be moved out to the pump house, which is my 60F fermentation chamber. It will be purged, and sprayed with star san before connecting. The metal screw top for my fermentation jar has been taped with black electrical tape, and a large rubber cork with a hydrometer provides the only access for returning gravity samples, and adding syrup. A bucket of starsan will live in the pump house (with a lid), and my hydrometer and jar will live in it.
I don't know what else I can do...............

H.W.

 

[Owly055]

Brewing the way I am, adding 5 pounds of sugar inverted and diluted into one gallon of water, makes it over complex to calculate what my current ABV is...... Not that it matters much. My original brew consisting of a gallon of wort made from 1.5 pounds of wheat and half a pound of rye resulted in an FG of 1.015 from an OG of about 1.07, pretty good attenuation considering I'm using readings from a hydrometer that reads slightly high, and Brewer's Friend predicted an FG of 1.018. With my current invert sugar addition it's percolating along. I didn't measure the gravity after the addition, but estimate it to be about 1.032. I'm expecting 100% attenuation of the sugar, so the FG should again hit 1.015. I'll probably tailor my additions to keep the gravity down around 1.030 for the first half gallon of syrup. I've decided to add some AG300 fungal amylase with my next syrup addition, as the lower the FG the better. As I get into the second half gallon of syrup, I'll probably reduce the gravity target to about 1.025, and the last quart I'll keep it under 1.020, as I want a dry product. I'll also monitor things more carefully, as ideally I'd like to finish not much above 1.015. Next week I'll begin a spreadsheet documenting my gravity readings. The procedure will be to take a gravity before adding syrup, then give it an oxygen blast, then about 2 hours later take a second gravity reading I just gave the brew it's daily oxygen blast. The second half gallon of syrup by the way includes yeast energizer.

Do these procedures make sense to anybody, or am I off in a world of my own as usual?

H.W.

 

[Owly055]

Grain and half the sugar fermented out...... 1.015 gravity. I'm at a bit over 10% ABV and fermenting merrily away.