GFCI Protection 240V 3 Wire?

[bemerritt]

Ok, so wire the hots in/out of the gfci breaker and I am all set to have my two elements be gfci protected?

 

[P-J]

Ok, so wire the hots in/out of the gfci breaker and I am all set to have my two elements be gfci protected?

Yes.

 

[jleiii]

Yes.

According to Seimens GFCI wiring datasheet:

Note: A load neutral is not required on the circuit.
However, the white line neutral (pigtail) must be
connected to the panel neutral for the device to
function.

Based on this statement there must be a neutral connection between the panel and the GFCI breaker in order for it to work.

 

[P-J]

According to Seimens GFCI wiring datasheet:

Note: A load neutral is not required on the circuit.
However, the white line neutral (pigtail) must be
connected to the panel neutral for the device to
function.

Based on this statement there must be a neutral connection between the panel and the GFCI breaker in order for it to work.

It will function just as well with that connection on the grounding conductor.

 

[scottyb710]

False a neutral and a ground are different neutral is the return path for the hots to carry unbalanced load so the will have voltage on them.

 

[P-J]

False a neutral and a ground are different neutral is the return path for the hots to carry unbalanced load so the will have voltage on them.

What ever. Apparently you are the expert..

Once again... I have no clue why I persist it trying to help.
Geeze...

 

[scottyb710]

You could put the gfi in the main panel and a regular breaker in your spa panel.

 

[brew_ny]

False a neutral and a ground are different neutral is the return path for the hots to carry unbalanced load so the will have voltage on them.

and in a main panel the ground bar and the neutral bar are bonded

correct ?

all the best

S_M

 

[grandequeso]

Death to all false neutrals!

 

[scottyb710]

Yes but only at the first means of disconnect never again. A ground touching a neutral week trip a afci breaker. It's considered a fault.

 

[scottyb710]

It may work but it's not the right way to do it.

 

[brew_ny]

False a neutral and a ground are different neutral is the return path for the hots to carry unbalanced load so the will have voltage on them.

Yes but only at the first means of disconnect never again. A ground touching a neutral week trip a afci breaker. It's considered a fault.

so if they are indeed bonded in the first disconnect how are they different ?

and yes after a GFCI breaker (220) if you try to use the ground coming from the breaker as a neutral to make 110 it will trip as it should

but as we know 220 needs only two hot legs to work and the ground is an equipment ground

correct ?

all the best

S_M

 

[AnOldUR]

Here's my drunken, nonprofessional take. In a three wire application it's H-H-G. If you use that ground as a nutral from the spa panel to the main panel you should wire it to the nutral strip rather than the ground strip. What code doesn't want is a potential for current at the ground strip in the panel. Could be dangeous for someone messing in th panel.

What did I just sy?

 

[thirstyutahn]

This is my favorite pointless arguement in the electric brewing world.

It was considered 100% safe for years, the code changed and now its considered unsafe.

I can see both sides, I feel educated in the matter now and as a grown man will make my own decision. Proving you're right on the internet is pointless. There are hundreds of things that endanger our lives everyday, its all calculated risks. Lets all stop playing internet police.

Lets get back to brewing gentleman...some on code safe equipment and some on "unsafe" equipment.

 

[raouliii]

.....neutral is the return path for the hots to carry unbalanced load so the will have voltage on them.

Untrue.

NEC calls the neutral a "grounded conductor" and the ground a "grounding conductor". They are both at a 0 volt potential relative to the ground. If neutral has a voltage of anything other than 0, there is a problem.

The neutral will carry CURRENT while the ground should not, under normal circumstances. Maybe current is what you meant but I'm not sure what the unbalanced load part of that statement even means. Current on the neutral conductor is simply the result of 120VAC circuits, balanced or not.

 

[scottyb710]

It's manly if you share neutrals or have fluorescent lighting the neutral will have voltage if you hold both neutrals to complete the path it will zap you.

 

[P-J]

It's manly if you share neutrals or have fluorescent lighting the neutral will have voltage if you hold both neutrals to complete the path it will zap you.

What???

 

[jeffmeh]

It's manly if you share neutrals or have fluorescent lighting the neutral will have voltage if you hold both neutrals to complete the path it will zap you.

If you hold two neutrals in a closed 120v circuit of course you will get zapped. If you hold a ground in either a properly wired (there is no ground fault), closed 120v or 240v circuit, then you will not. With a 3-wire dryer with neutral tied to the dryer chassis for ground, touching the chassis is in effect holding the ground, which logically seems to be the reason that they changed the code here. With a ground fault, you would get zapped.

I am not an electrician, so if I have this wrong, please use clear facts to educate me.

 

[scottyb710]

That's right the neutral would zap you If it had a load on it from like a light.

 

[scottyb710]

And yes they changed the code for that reason they didn't want the neutral to be tied to the dryer.

 

[cblambert1645]

How bout this? Its what im planning for rims rocket setup with a aquastat and dpst n.o. relay for switching duties
http://www.amazon.com/North-Shore-Safety-PGFI-22111-Connector/dp/B00OZY27Q2