GFCI and general eclectic questions

[#Buckeye Brewer#]

I’m considering upgrading from a the igloo coolers to a electric system. In my research a big factor appears to be the power supply and making sure it’s done right. My challenge is I may be moving within the next six months and don’t want to spend the money twice on power supply. In the interim would I be able to run an appropriate amp extension cord from my dryer outlet to the brew system? I’m estimating needing 20’ to 30’ reach my brewing area. Also I keep reading about the power supply being GFCI, would a dryer outlet be GFCI?

Other topic: 30 amp 1 outlet at a time vs. 50 amp two outlets at a time. My spare time is limited so reducing the brew day duration is important to me. My thought is being able to heat the initial strike water with two elements (hlt and boil kettle) and then transfer to hlt would save time. Also being able to hold the hlt at mash out temp while beginning to raise temp in the boil kettle is another.

I’m looking at the Spike , Blichmann,or piecemeal it together with a prebuilt controller.

 

[jtratcliff]

If your outlet is GFCI, it should have a test/reset switch... You can also get GFCI extension cords...

is it 240? or 110? 30 amp should be plenty at 240....
Should be able to easily handle a continuous 5000W element...

As long as your is extension cord is the proper gauge, you should be good (use the shortest cord possible)

If you don't want to switch to full electric before you move, I do Stove-top BIAB (gas stove) supplemented with a 1300W heat stick.
I can easily get 8+ gallons to vigorous boil (with stove + stick) using regular 110V, 15amp kitchen outlet to supplement the heating of my gas stove.

 

[Still Brewn]

run an appropriate amp extension cord from my dryer outlet to the brew system? I’m estimating needing 20’ to 30’ reach my brewing area. Also I keep reading about the power supply being GFCI, would a dryer outlet be GFCI?

Dryer =30 amp 240 volt. You can get an RV power cord for 30 amp 110 volt or 50 amp 240 volt service but you dryer is only 30 amp 240 volt so you don't want to be trying to run 50 amp. You can change the circuit breaker in the fuse box to a GFI.

Other topic: 30 amp 1 outlet at a time vs. 50 amp two outlets at a time.

That is a lot of power I don't know anything about the systems you are looking at but with that much power you could have things boiling in minutes. You have to add up the power requirements of the equipment you want to use before you go changing your wiring. The outlet for your dryer should say what amperage it is for.... should say 30A on the front of it and that is all the power you can run from it. If you need more power you can use your stove outlet. That should be 30 amp also..... If you have one.

I’m looking at the Spike , Blichmann,or piecemeal it together with a prebuilt controller.

Be sure to click to expand there are more notes above.

I happen to have gas and electric in my kitchen with 2 separate 240 outlets both 30 amp. The 2nd one I installed because I was going to get a Pico Brew Z2 but they never got their crap together and I ended up with a Brewie.

 

[mongoose33]

I switched to electric in August/September. Yeah, it was a process to get all the wiring and such in place, get the parts, and so on. I have a single 5500-watt element in my 10-gallon Spike kettle.

One reason I switched to electric was that I don't have to babysit a propane burner while the water heats. I can fill the kettle, set it to heating, and go do other things. Heck, I can fill the kettle the night before, get up, start the kettle heating, make coffee, collect other brewing stuff, and in 30 minutes I have 8.25 gallons of water boiling (I preboil the water for LODO reasons). That water typically starts at 50 degrees, so I'm getting 5-6 degrees rise per minute.

If you just take it up to strike temp of, say, 170, that probably would take me 22 minutes, again, from a 50-degree start.

Do you need two elements to do this? I don't. I think this will be more than fast enough for you.

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Your dryer plug is very unlikely to be GFCI. You can mitigate that by replacing the circuit breaker with a GFCI breaker, but if you're moving you'd want to take that with you, and if you don't know the brand of electrical box in the place to which you're moving, it may not work there. GFCI breakers are expensive, ranging from roughly $50 to as much as $103 (which is what mine cost).

I use a sub-panel in my garage off of which I run the 30-amp circuit for the brew panel running the heating element, also a few other circuits.

I don't know offhand how to provide GFCI capability for a dryer outlet if not a breaker. I'm sure there's a way, people here will be able to help.

One thing is for sure: I wouldn't do this without one.

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If it were me and I was moving in 6 months, I might wait to see what I needed.

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Modern systems use a 4-wire setup; probably the dryer is 3-wire if the house electric service has some age on it. A 4-wire setup allows not only the use of 240-volt power, but also the use of 120-volt power to run something like a pump. A 3-wire system only allows for the 240-volt power.

You're going to need a controller to do this. You can spend anything from about $45 for a Stilldragon controller (plus cords) to...$400-700 for one of the Auber Instruments panels to...well, a lot more.

I have an Auber Instruments panel I built; they have pre-built ones, and a table-top controller called the cube that comes in kit form or as a pre-built.

And there are other options, depending on if you want wall-mount or tabletop versions.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Be sure to click to expand there are more notes above.

Dryer = 240 volt. You can get an RV power cord for 30 or 50 amp service

It's important to realize that 30 amp RV service is 120V, not 240V. The plugs on the end of an RV 30 amp extension cord won't work with a 240V dryer outlet.

50 amp RV service is the same as household 240V service so a 50 amp cord would work, but also won't plug into a dryer outlet - you'd need some kind of adapter (NOT an RV 30 to 50 amp adapter...see above).

A good explanation of RV electrical service can be found here (at the bottom of the 30 amp page, there is a good rundown of the different household 30 amp outlets):
http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/30amp_Service.htm
http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/50amp_Service.htm

 

[#Buckeye Brewer#]

Thanks for the information, I figured the power supply would be an issue so I will wait for clarity on the housing front before I do anything. It sounds like a 30amp controller system is enough heating capacity for 5 to 10 gallon batches.

 

[Br3w4u]

I have a 30 amp GFCI extension cord that I use for my electric brew rig. You should just buy my rig, it’s for sale

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

What you want to do is exactly how I brew.
I Plug into the dryer and run a 25 ft extension cord to my brew area.
You should consider Electric BIAB. One pot, one element and a real simple/easy brew day.

If the dryer is 3 wire you can't run an outlet off your panel that you mention you want. If its 4 wire you can.
This is simple to get around. If your brew area has a normal outlet just use that...simple. Power is power it doesnt have to be on the control panel....that you need to build or buy

Will your new place have an electric dryer?

Also a dryer is 240 and will run a 5500w heating element that will boil 15 gallons of water quick for 10 gallon batches. If your doing 5 gallons I think the whole thing would be overkill.

I'd look into induction stovetop or immersion heaters that run off a normal outlet if your brewing 5 gallons.

There are different options so plan accordingly

GFI is a breaker or a spa panel whatever you think will work best for your current and future place

 

[Still Brewn]

It's important to realize that 30 amp RV service is 120V, not 240V. The plugs on the end of an RV 30 amp extension cord won't work with a 240V dryer outlet.

50 amp RV service is the same as household 240V service so a 50 amp cord would work, but also won't plug into a dryer outlet - you'd need some kind of adapter (NOT an RV 30 to 50 amp adapter...see above).

You are correct..... My mistake I will edit above to show correct info. Those cords are expensive as he!!, don't want anyone going out and spending that kinda money on incorrect info. Been a while since we had service installed at our cabin for my brother and I haven't been out there in almost 5 years.

 

[Still Brewn]

How close is your fuse box to your brew area? If it is close it would be far cheaper to just install the correct circuit breaker, wiring and outlet near your brew area.

 

[mongoose33]

How close is your fuse box to your brew area? If it is close it would be far cheaper to just install the correct circuit breaker, wiring and outlet near your brew area.

This is what I did--used 6-gauge wire from a 60-amp breaker in my main breaker box to run to the garage, where I installed a subpanel.

In that subpanel I installed a 30-amp GFCI breaker and use that to feed my panel. Because I have a lot of power there, I also installed two 20-amp breakers for two separate brewing circuits (one for my RIMS setup which is 120-v, one for my chiller/temp controller, also a 120-v circuit). Both have GFCI receptacles.

This is the part that's interesting: our local home store had an 11% off sale and I used that to get a 5000-watt electric garage heater for $62.30 (yeah, you read that right). I was lusting after that when it hit me: I have power in the garage I can use to run this thing! So I installed another 30-amp breaker (no GFCI), and wired it up.

It lets me warm up the garage on brew day if I need it, I can even run it and my brew panel at the same time, and I had the power to burn, as they say.

My point, extending what Still_Brewn is noting, is that if you do what he suggests, do it so you can expand as you wish. I'm still thanking my lucky stars I put in greater capacity than I originally needed.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

My question is if you only brew 5 gallons is all this necessary or can you simply get one of those immersion heaters and plug it into the wall?

Or 2 of them on different circuits if that's what it takes?

I dont brew 5 gallons but it seems so much easier....thats a real question...I've never done it

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

My question is if you only brew 5 gallons is all this necessary or can you simply get one of those immersion heaters and plug it into the wall?

Or 2 of them on different circuits if that's what it takes?

I dont brew 5 gallons but it seems so much easier....thats a real question...I've never done it

Sure, you CAN do it with less. The amount of power you use is all about how fast you heat up the water. It doesn't take much to maintain a rolling boil, but getting up to boiling is where the power makes the difference.

For a lot of people, it doesn't matter how long it takes to heat up - just turn on the heat and go do something else while it's heating up. For others (like me...), I don't want to wait around longer than I have to, so I have a 50 amp circuit in my brew room. I brew 5 gallon batches; I can run two big heaters at once and it really shortens the "dead" time during a brew session. There is also the fact that I have a lot of fun building and upgrading the brewing system. Do I NEED a complicated 2-vessel/2-pump microprocessor controlled brewing system? Heck...I could just buy the beer at the store and save all that time I spend brewing!

It comes down to what's important to you as a brewer; lots of ways to brew - choose what works best for you.

 

[augiedoggy]

if you havent bought pumps yet a simple solution no one ever things of with a 3 wire dryer outlet is to just buy a 240v pump (virtually every homebrewing pump comes in this optional configuration) or choose a dc pump which can be easily powered off the 240v via multitap powersupply.
I brew 10 gallons at a time and never had a need for more than 30a myself.