GF Brewing with Chestnuts

[Leeinwa]

Hey Matt,

I hope this question doesn't insult your craft, but do you have any advice about Gluten-Free extract brewing? I'm living in Japan and have not yet gotten into AG brews (though I plan to in the Spring, when I move to CA).

My buddy is coming to visit in a couple months, so I realized I need to get on the ball with ordering some ingredients, brewing, and having time to ferment/condition before he arrives.

Where should I start?

Thanks!

Brett

PS Hopefully the fact that I'm a Boston fan by marriage helps cancel out asking an AG brewer for Extract advice!

When you get here contact me and we can talked about GF chestnut beer.

[email protected]

leeinwas

 

[Gonoles10]

New recipe for me. I'm going to try a lager. Here is the recipe for a 10 gallon batch. I'm going to call it "Unrepresented American" Lager:

20 lbs of light roast chestnuts
5 lbs of clover honey

1 oz Hersbrucker 60 min
1 oz Tetnang 60 min
1 oz Hersbrucker 30 min
1 oz Tetnanag 30 min
1 oz Herbrucker 30 min
1 oz Tetnang - flameout

Using Lager yeast.

The nuts have been soaking since last night with amylase and pectin. I plan on finishing up the mash after work this evening.

 

[DKershner]

New recipe for me. I'm going to try a lager. Here is the recipe for a 10 gallon batch. I'm going to call it "Unrepresented American" Lager:

20 lbs of light roast chestnuts
5 lbs of clover honey

1 oz Hersbrucker 60 min
1 oz Tetnang 60 min
1 oz Hersbrucker 30 min
1 oz Tetnanag 30 min
1 oz Herbrucker 30 min
1 oz Tetnang - flameout

Using Lager yeast.

The nuts have been soaking since last night with amylase and pectin. I plan on finishing up the mash after work this evening.

My only comment would be that this is a ton of hop flavor and aroma for a light lager. Maybe make the 30min just a half ounce, if that, and use your 60 min addition to bitter to your liking. Otherwise, you may end up with smooth hop tea.

 

[Gonoles10]

Thanks for the suggestion. I may dial it back a bit.

 

[mrkstel]

Can someone look over this?

http://brew.dkershner.com/2010/chestnut-brown/

dkershner, did you ever brew this brown? How did it turn out? Did the cocoa add anything worthwhile?

I did a belgian wit a while back and it turned out pretty nice. Next I want to try a brown with willamette hops and either all dark or half and half dark and medium chips. I also thought about adding some lactose to the boil for body and sweetness. Thoughts?

 

[DKershner]

dkershner, did you ever brew this brown? How did it turn out? Did the cocoa add anything worthwhile?

I did a belgian wit a while back and it turned out pretty nice. Next I want to try a brown with willamette hops and either all dark or half and half dark and medium chips. I also thought about adding some lactose to the boil for body and sweetness. Thoughts?

I didn't. I went a different way with my GF brewing, towards brown rice syrup. If it doesn't work, I will probably come back to this brew.

I would use maltodextrin over lactose for a brown, or it may come out too sweet. Browns I don't picture as particularly sweet, just having some malty body to them. I would save the lactose for a milk or sweet stout. The exception might be if you wanted this brown to be very low gravity but have some body.

I would also add it to the fermenter, that way you can see what the yeast does before you add it.

 

[Lcasanova]

Shameless plug :cross:...I have a brown ale in my drop down...I thought it turned out fantastic

 

[celiacsurvivor]

+1 on Lcasanova's brown.

My second favourite GF brew so far (after my honey lager).

 

[mrkstel]

Thanks for the advice on the brown. I will try to put together a recipe and post it for feedback in the next few days.

On another note, I entered my wit style chestnut brew in the Nebraska State Fair (specialty beer category). Judging was this morning so I stopped by to check it out. Afterward, I was able to talk to a couple of the judges. They only awarded it a red ribbon. But, they also told me that it was the best gluten-free beer they had tasted. They kind of hinted that it didn't stand up very well to the barely beers in the category, but for a gluten-free brew it was pretty good. I think I am on the right track.

Oh. . . one of the judges suggested that I try serving it warm, "like crockpot warm, sort of like cider." Strange. . . but maybe I will give it a try.

 

[Leeinwa]

Thanks for the advice on the brown. I will try to put together a recipe and post it for feedback in the next few days.

On another note, I entered my wit style chestnut brew in the Nebraska State Fair (specialty beer category). Judging was this morning so I stopped by to check it out. Afterward, I was able to talk to a couple of the judges. They only awarded it a red ribbon. But, they also told me that it was the best gluten-free beer they had tasted. They kind of hinted that it didn't stand up very well to the barely beers in the category, but for a gluten-free brew it was pretty good. I think I am on the right track.

Oh. . . one of the judges suggested that I try serving it warm, "like crockpot warm, sort of like cider." Strange. . . but maybe I will give it a try.

Don't let he judges get you down.You'll never get any Gf beer to taste exactly like a barley based beer. Just enjoy the comments that they say it's the best Gf beer they've tasted.

leeinwa

 

[mrkstel]

Don't let he judges get you down.You'll never get any Gf beer to taste exactly like a barley based beer. Just enjoy the comments that they say it's the best Gf beer they've tasted.

leeinwa

Oh, no. I'm not down in the least. Red ribbon be damned, I know it was good beer and they implied that it was. I just wasn't a barely beer, which the others in the category were. Chestnuts, as good as they might be, will never produce a beer like barley can. I have come to accept that and am fine with it. My goal is to produce a good gluten free, beer-like alcoholic beverage, not an award winning Belgian wit that hits all the style points dead on. In fact, I was so stoked about the judges' comments that I chilled two bombers, took them over to my celiac buddy's place and celebrated with a cold one.

On a side note: I don't know if it is the hops or the spices or the chestnuts, but in this batch there is a definite fresh strawberry aroma and flavor. You would not believe how well it goes with chocolate mousse. A-frickin'-mazing!!!!

 

[Lcasanova]

On a side note: I don't know if it is the hops or the spices or the chestnuts, but in this batch there is a definite fresh strawberry aroma and flavor. You would not believe how well it goes with chocolate mousse. A-frickin'-mazing!!!!

Could it be something from the yeast you are tasting?

I think we may not be able to make a beer that will taste EXACTLY like a barley beer, but if you give someone a beer that is well made and they don't know it is gluten-free, what's the difference? I think about the brown ale that I made, and I NEED to make it again, I couldn't stop drinking that beer it was so good. Don't let others stop you, homebrewing is about what YOU like anyways.

Keep on brother :rockin:

 

[mrkstel]

I just ordered another batch of chestnuts for an attempt at a brown ale. I used lcasanova's recipe as guidance. Let me know what you think.

Chestnut Honey Brown

2.5 lbs Chestnuts - Dark Roast
2.5 lbs Chestnuts - Medium Roast
4.0 lbs Honey
0.5 lbs Maple Syrup (60 min)
0.5 lbs Molasses (60 min)
0.25 lbs Dark Candi Sugar (60 min)
0.5 lbs Maltodextrin (60 min)
1 oz Willamette (60 min)
1 oz Willamette (10 min)
1 Whirlfloc Tablet (10 min)
1 sachet S-04 dry yeast

I think that should put the SG around 1055. I will have some corn sugar nearby in case I need to bump up the gravity. Willamettes are listed just because I have them on hand. If I come across some EKGs, I might use them for the 2nd addition.

 

[Lcasanova]

I bet it will come out darker but I have a feeling you will like this.

 

[mrkstel]

Yes, I am aiming for something a bit darker than yours. The color contributed by the chestnuts is still a little bit of an unknown. So I will evaluate it after sparging and adjust the molasses and candi sugar accordingly if needed.

 

[dotnetdotcom]

Folks with gluten allergies may be interested in this:
Researchers Pinpoint Cause of Gluten Allergies

 

[mrkstel]

So, I brewed the chestnut honey brown tonight. I did the usual 24 hour mash with 1 Tbs amylase and 1.25 qt/lb of water. I boiled the nuts for 10 minutes and cooled before mashing. For the hell of it, I took a measurement last night right after I sealed up the cooler and covered it with a sleeping bag for insulation. I also added a Tbs of 5.2 pH stabilizer. My refractometer read 10* brix. Tonight, after 24 hours of mashing it read, maybe 10.5* brix. This leads me to believe that we aren't gaining anything by doing the long mash. The chestnuts appear to add a small amount of sugar. But they mainly add color and flavor to the brew. Granted, I did not do a iodine conversion test and this is just a single observation. But, it does make me wonder if we are wasting our time doing the 24 hour mash for chestnuts. Thoughts?

 

[Lcasanova]

Would be awesome if that were true. One of the main reasons I've been avoiding using chestnuts is the 24 hour mash- it just isn't convenient for me.

 

[Gonoles10]

Good question on the mash. Always wondered it myself, but when it came to brew day, I just did what was told. On another note, my chestnut lager turned out great! Very clear and tasty.

 

[DKershner]

So, I brewed the chestnut honey brown tonight. I did the usual 24 hour mash with 1 Tbs amylase and 1.25 qt/lb of water. I boiled the nuts for 10 minutes and cooled before mashing. For the hell of it, I took a measurement last night right after I sealed up the cooler and covered it with a sleeping bag for insulation. I also added a Tbs of 5.2 pH stabilizer. My refractometer read 10* brix. Tonight, after 24 hours of mashing it read, maybe 10.5* brix. This leads me to believe that we aren't gaining anything by doing the long mash. The chestnuts appear to add a small amount of sugar. But they mainly add color and flavor to the brew. Granted, I did not do a iodine conversion test and this is just a single observation. But, it does make me wonder if we are wasting our time doing the 24 hour mash for chestnuts. Thoughts?

How many lbs of chestnuts gave you 10-10.5 brix? I suppose it wouldn't matter since the water is 1.25qt/lb but it would just be easier if you told me.

Nevermind, I see the recipe above. 5lbs chestnuts in 1.5625gal water = 10 Brix.

It appears Chestnuts (at least a mix of med/dark) have a yield of 1.017 or about 37%. Compare this to ~75% for Sorghum or BRS. This is what makes chestnut sugar fairly expensive in relation to other stuff. Interesting. I always thought 24hrs sounded a bit extreme. In an hour long mash with Barley, 75% of the conversion takes place in the first 15min.

 

[mrkstel]

Yes, it was 5 lbs (2.5 dark, 2.5 med). It is just starting to wind down fermentation. But, I tried it a couple days ago anyway. Holy Nuttiness. It tastes like those German candied nuts that you find in the mall around Christmas time. A little more time to dry out should help balance it out some. I'll post how it turns out in a few weeks.

As for the mash, next time I plan to use 10 lbs per 5 gallons. Not so much for the sugar, but more for the body and head retention that it seems to lend. I usually use 5 lbs per 2.5 gallon batches and noticed a lot more foaming during aeration and a lot more krausen during fermentation. I don't think that this one is going to have the nice creamy head that my past chestnuts had

 

[Ichthy]

Sorry if this has been answered in this thread, but I have a question regarding the use of chestnuts.

Someone approached me about adding chestnuts to a beer. Keep in mind this beer will NOT be gluten free, we are looking to get some interesting chestnut character in a beer.

Regarding the mashing of chestnuts, is it absolutely necessary to use amylase enzyme? I'm wondering if a cereal mash would be effective or can I just throw some chestnuts in a normal all-grain mash and get conversion? If that won't work, can I heat the chestnut mash to kill the amylase so I don't thin my barley wort too much?

Also, what style of beer would this best suit? I'm thinking of a nutbrown or amber but would be curious as to what you guys recommend, since you've brewed with chestnuts.

 

[DKershner]

Sorry if this has been answered in this thread, but I have a question regarding the use of chestnuts.

Someone approached me about adding chestnuts to a beer. Keep in mind this beer will NOT be gluten free, we are looking to get some interesting chestnut character in a beer.

Regarding the mashing of chestnuts, is it absolutely necessary to use amylase enzyme? I'm wondering if a cereal mash would be effective or can I just throw some chestnuts in a normal all-grain mash and get conversion? If that won't work, can I heat the chestnut mash to kill the amylase so I don't thin my barley wort too much?

Also, what style of beer would this best suit? I'm thinking of a nutbrown or amber but would be curious as to what you guys recommend, since you've brewed with chestnuts.

You should be able to use the amylase enzyme from barley instead, and it will already be present in your mash. I think you should boil the chestnut chips first though, although I am not entirely sure on that.

 

[Ichthy]

You should be able to use the amylase enzyme from barley instead, and it will already be present in your mash. I think you should boil the chestnut chips first though, although I am not entirely sure on that.

Are you GF brewers boiling before mashing with amylase? To my knowledge that is essentially a cereal mash.

I would love to be able to just toss the chestnuts in a barley mash, it would make life easier.

 

[Gonoles10]

There should be plenty of enzymes in the barley mash without adding the amylase. I never boiled the chestnuts and just treated them like a regular all grain mash (with the extended mash time) and had great results. If all you are going for is the flavor, I would think you would be fine with the 60-90 minute mash and just tossing the chestnuts in there.

 

[DKershner]

Are you GF brewers boiling before mashing with amylase? To my knowledge that is essentially a cereal mash.

I would love to be able to just toss the chestnuts in a barley mash, it would make life easier.

I was thinking of a different ingredient, no boiling needed. Just toss em in.

 

[Ichthy]

Ok, great. If this goes as planned I'll report back.

 

[Leeinwa]

You should be able to use the amylase enzyme from barley instead, and it will already be present in your mash. I think you should boil the chestnut chips first though, although I am not entirely sure on that.

Yes. Boil your chestnuts. Since they have no glutens they won't "ball up" and get doughy. If you use amylase let the nuts and wort cool down to 160 before ADDING AMYLASE. Let it stand for at least 24 hours.
leeinwa

 

[DKershner]

Yes. Boil your chestnuts. Since they have no glutens they won't "ball up" and get doughy. If you use amylase let the nuts and wort cool down to 160 before ADDING AMYLASE. Let it stand for at least 24 hours.
leeinwa

Hmmm, I was just on your website and you only mentioned 150-160 I thought, no boiling.

Oh well, my correction stands corrected back to the original.

 

[Leeinwa]

Ok, great. If this goes as planned I'll report back.

I have lots of people who add 5-10 % chestnuts to barley based beers. Those buggers always take the blue ribbons at local beer events. A great flavor addition.

leeinwa