Getting a good whirlpool

[oceanic_brew]

Just recently switched to electric. Have a 5500 watt element on my Bk about 1.5 inches up from bottom of my 15 Gallon Kettle. After I shut the boil off I recirculate through my CFC back into my whirlpool arm, after about 10 minutes or so I remove the pump from the loop and slowly ramp up flow through the whirlpool arm.

The whirlpool arm is at about the 4G mark in a 6 gallon finished volume and there seems to be a good whirlpool going but at the end there’s no cone. I’m losing about 1 Gallon to the kettle with trying to avoid putting too much through the CFC. Even with barely any hops in be recipe.

Obviously the element is in the way of forming a cone but I’m just wondering what everyone does in this situation? Do I just factor in a gallon waste each time?

Thanks

 

[Esmitee]

Just recently switched to electric. Have a 5500 watt element on my Bk about 1.5 inches up from bottom of my 15 Gallon Kettle. After I shut the boil off I recirculate through my CFC back into my whirlpool arm, after about 10 minutes or so I remove the pump from the loop and slowly ramp up flow through the whirlpool arm.

The whirlpool arm is at about the 4G mark in a 6 gallon finished volume and there seems to be a good whirlpool going but at the end there’s no cone. I’m losing about 1 Gallon to the kettle with trying to avoid putting too much through the CFC. Even with barely any hops in be recipe.

Obviously the element is in the way of forming a cone but I’m just wondering what everyone does in this situation? Do I just factor in a gallon waste each time?

Thanks

That's a great question. I'm new to Electric brewing,But not to brewing. I just completed a control panel and re-did my kettles. I use kegs, so my element is about 4 1/2 gallons high or about 4" off the bottom. I also made the BK a bottom drain, mostly for cleaning purposes. I did install a side dip tube just for whirlpooling. I'm hoping I can pump a good whirlpool and the hole in the bottom for the drain and my element don't interfere with whirlpooling and I can just open up the bottom drain and remove all the hop dirt , then fill the fermentors!

 

[oceanic_brew]

anyone?

 

[thehaze]

The whirlpool arm should help settling the trub at the bottom. Do you stop the whirlpool and let the wort rest for a few minutes? This is where the trub will settle at the bottom. I whirlpool with a paddle a few times, every 5-10 minutes, to resuspend the hops for better utilization. I perform the last whirlpool action 10-15 minutes before I am ready to transfer to the fermenter. This way, the trub and debris has a chance to settle at the bottom. I get a pretty compact cake with just a paddle and some good rest time.

 

[November]

How long are you resting after the whirlpool?

I spin it for 15 minutes, turn the pump off, and let it sit for 15 before pumping out of the kettle.

 

[thehaze]

Usually around 10-15 minutes. The temperature is already dropped below 70C/158F at that point. I use some Brewtan B and Protafloc in the boil, as late addition and it does help tremendously.

But anyway, the whirlpool on its own with a proper rest for 15 minutes should show results. Maybe try to use a paddle next time, just to compare the results with the ones you get from the whirlpool pump. Just an idea, probably stupid... but you got to start troubleshooting somewhere.

 

[November]

Oops, I should have specified, I meant that for OP. He didn't mention a rest and I wanted to ensure he was doing one and not going straight from spinning to pumping out.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I whirlpool for 15 mins and then let it rest another 15 using chugger pumps. I do NOT whirlpool thru my cfc as I found it slowed the whirlpool too much to be affective. I use a DIY cfc that's 3/8 if I remember correctly. I use a whirlpool arm at this point and place it all the way down in the kettle. I don't get a "cone" but all the hot break and hops stay in the centre and I drain off the side. I think you should try without the chiller or maybe you can do a longer whirlpooling after taking the chiller out of the loop. I leave appx .5 gallon behind but I use a 25g boil kettle and compensate using a larger batch size. Cheers

 

[postalbunny]

I wouldn't worry too much about bypassing the CFC to get a good whirlpool... the speed doesn't have to be that great. I've found that when I chill while whirl pooling that once i reach temp i can just run off without even pausing. I dont' pump out, i just let gravity drain the wort through the kettle, pump, CFC and into the fermenter. By the time i'm done draining i'm left with a cone similar to the one pictured.

Maybe you've got your pump up too high when emptying the kettle and it's pulling the particles forward? I know i can pump, but have never done it at full volume.. and i usually just let gravity drain it while I prep other things.

A good way to see what might be going on would be to fill your kettle with water and throw a handful of grains in there. Then try the whirlpool. You'll see that it doesn't take much... once you stop pumping the grains will pull to the center.

You can even whirlpool with a wine mixer and electric drill if you wanted to (sanitize the mixer first). I used to do this when i didn't have pumps... once the wort was cooled i used the wine mixer to aerate the wort and start a whirlpool to get the large particles in the middle of the pot.

 

[jcav]

I have a whirlpool arm in my electric boil kettle. I use a keggle and the concave bottom seems to help with keeping the cone in the center. I have a side dip tube and usually can get all the wort into the fermenter except for about three ounces or so. So it is a very effective whirlpool. I use a large stainless steel hop basket which keeps the majority of the hops in the basket but there is a good amount that comes out of the basket too. I have my whirlpool arm exit very low in the boil kettle and right near the bottom. I recirculate through my counter flow chiller when I am I ready to chill down the wort and when I hit the correct temp I pump the wort right into the fermenter. This works very well for me and with a side dip tube there is very little left in the keggle. All the stuff you don't want stays just in front of the dip tube so you don't pick it up. Here is a link to my whirl pool arm in my build thread if you want to check it out. Go to post # 37 to see the whirl pool arm low in the kettle.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/rebuilding-my-brutus-hybrid-into-a-kal-clone.541449/


John

 

[Blazinlow86]

I wouldn't worry too much about bypassing the CFC to get a good whirlpool... the speed doesn't have to be that great. I've found that when I chill while whirl pooling that once i reach temp i can just run off without even pausing. I dont' pump out, i just let gravity drain the wort through the kettle, pump, CFC and into the fermenter. By the time i'm done draining i'm left with a cone similar to the one pictured.

Maybe you've got your pump up too high when emptying the kettle and it's pulling the particles forward? I know i can pump, but have never done it at full volume.. and i usually just let gravity drain it while I prep other things.

A good way to see what might be going on would be to fill your kettle with water and throw a handful of grains in there. Then try the whirlpool. You'll see that it doesn't take much... once you stop pumping the grains will pull to the center.

You can even whirlpool with a wine mixer and electric drill if you wanted to (sanitize the mixer first). I used to do this when i didn't have pumps... once the wort was cooled i used the wine mixer to aerate the wort and start a whirlpool to get the large particles in the middle of the pot.

Postal bunny made a good point that I forgot to mention. Once I'm draining to the fermenter I use my pump however it's a a very slow flow rate. If I just opened the valve and drained at full speed it would definitely pull the hops/break from the cone into the fermenter. However my experience with a gentle whirlpool has never worked. I can only get the cone I pictured after running at full rate without the cfc in the loop for 15 mins with a 15 min rest afterwards. If I use the cfc inline while whirlpooling it will not work nearly as good. I'm pretty sure it's because of how small my diy chiller is though. If it was 1/2 I think it would work alot better. Cheers

 

[postalbunny]

Yeah, i also didnt mention my cfc was 1/2 stainless... the one kegco used to sell. I have also had good results while using a plate chiller so im not sure its related to how fast or flow rate. Once you get enough momentum to where the outside is going faster than the inside the particles should settle inside.

There is a good video from the guys at norcal that sell a mixer/whirlpool attachment for a drill where they show how it works witj clear water and some grains. Would be worth a shot

 

[mongoose33]

I have a whirlpool port also about 4 gallons up on a 10-gallon spike kettle.

The arm Spike sells as a whirlpool arm doesn't eject wort parallel to the kettle side, it tends to point it toward the sidewall. I found that this made for turbulence at the bottom of the kettle which disturbed the hop cone.

Based on a suggestion from someone, I cut off that whirlpool arm, added a piece of silicone tubing, and now it works fine. Couple of pics showing this, plus a short 10-second video showing how the whirlpooling works.

OP: Does your whirlpool arm eject wort parallel to the kettle wall? How fast do you draw wort into the CFC? I have a dip tube that draws from the bottom of the kettle, also the same whirlpool arm that can draw from the side off a lip above the bottom. It does better if I'm not drawing wort off the bottom.