General questions on counterflow chillers, whirlpools, etc...

[Rob2010SS]

I'm moving to using a counterflow chiller and my new system will have pumps. It will all be here in about a week but I'm trying to mentally prepare and figure stuff out in my head before it's here , but it's a bit difficult without having the equipment to visualize.

1. When whirlpooling to create the trub cone, do you do that after the wort is chilled or do you do it while it's hot and then chill after? I would think you would chill and then do it, then let it sit for the 45-60 mins to let stuff settle and then transfer to fermenter.

2. If the answer above is chill first then whirlpool, do you just run the wort through the counterflow chiller and back into the boil kettle until it's at your desired temp?

3. If doing the above to chill the wort, would you perform the whirlpool at the same time? So run the wort through the counterflow chiller and back into the boil kettle through the whilrpool port?

4. If you wanted to add whirlpool/hopstand hops at a certain temp, am I correct in thinking you'd run through your counterflow chiller until you hit your desired temp, shut off the pump to the chiller, let the whirlpool sit your desired time, and then restart the pump after?

I'm sure more questions will pop up in my head, but this is a good start, haha.

Thanks.

 

[day_trippr]

You're pretty much there.

Plumb your CFC so you can route the pump output back through a whirlpooling port on the BK. If you're going to do a sub-170°F hop addition don't shut off the pump - shut off the cooling water and keep whirlpooling. If you're going for a long WP and you want to hold the temp at the top you can add heat when necessary.

Once you're at the end of your whirlpooling turn on the cooling water, then decide if you want to drop a cone or not. If yes, keep recirculating to pitch temperature then shut off the pump and let things settle before pumping to your fermentor. If no run the output of the pump to your fermentor and adjust the water/wort flows to hit pitch temperature...

Cheers!

 

[Keith81]

I haven't gotten to use my counterflow yet but #3 was how I'm planning to do it. I haven't done whirlpool hops but #4 seems like a logical way to do it.

 

[Rob2010SS]

You're pretty much there.

Plumb your CFC so you can route the pump output back through a whirlpooling port on the BK. If you're going to do a sub-170°F hop addition don't shut off the pump - shut off the cooling water and keep whirlpooling. If you're going for a long WP and you want to hold the temp at the top you can add heat when necessary.

Once you're at the end of your whirlpooling turn on the cooling water, then decide if you want to drop a cone or not. If yes, keep recirculating to pitch temperature then shut off the pump and let things settle before pumping to your fermentor. If no run the output of the pump to your fermentor and adjust the water/wort flows to hit pitch temperature...

Cheers!

Awesome info! Thanks man

 

[Vale71]

The idea with a properly setup counterflow chiller is that hot wort comes in on one end and cold wort (ideally at pitching temp) comes out the other end and goes into the fermentor. This is what will give you the highest efficiency as far as water usage goes. Dumping the chilled wort back into the whirlpool is counterproductive as it will reduce the heat transfer efficiency.

 

[Bobby_M]

The idea with a properly setup counterflow chiller is that hot wort comes in on one end and cold wort (ideally at pitching temp) comes out the other end and goes into the fermentor. This is what will give you the highest efficiency as far as water usage goes. Dumping the chilled wort back into the whirlpool is counterproductive as it will reduce the heat transfer efficiency.

It may not be the most efficient way but if you want to do a lower temp hop stand whirlpool or whirlpool and settle out the cold break you have no choice. The matter of water usage is generally overblown if you are outside of drought areas.

 

[Vale71]

You can just let the whirlpool stand until termperature drops by natural cooling and then do the hopstand. I don't live in a drought area but water still isn't cheap so I try to save as much as I can.
And as I keep repeating there is no way cold break is going to settle unless you let your wort stand longer than 24hrs which is not really recommended for several well known reasons.

 

[Rob2010SS]

You can just let the whirlpool stand until termperature drops by natural cooling and then do the hopstand. I don't live in a drought area but water still isn't cheap so I try to save as much as I can.
And as I keep repeating there is no way cold break is going to settle unless you let your wort stand longer than 24hrs which is not really recommended for several well known reasons.

Im on a well so i don't pay for water so not concerned with that part of it.

Ive seen some systems where people implement a heat exchanger coil. Looks similar to the herms coil but it's mounted on the bottom of the brew table. Perhaps this heat exchanger coil is used specifically for this purpose of dropping the wort temp without using water?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Another question to add here.

In an eherms system, you heat the hlt to your strike temp which is obviously hotter than your planned mash temp. You transfer your desired volume from your hlt to your mash tun, you dough in and hopefully hit your mash temp.

How do you bring the temp in your hlt back down to your mash temp so you don't overheat your mash? Do you just add cold water to it?

If you add cold water to the hlt to cool it down to mash temp, how do you maintain water profile?

 

[Vale71]

If you want to have any amount of heat exchange the water in the HLT mus have a higher temperature than the mash. If the water in the HTL had the same temperature as your desired mash temp then you would have to wait for the mash to reach a significantly lower temperature in order for there being any measurable heat exchange at all, making it practically impossible to maintain the desired mash temperature. You would then drive the pump based on measured mash temp to maintain your target temperature.

 

[Rob2010SS]

If you want to have any amount of heat exchange the water in the HLT mus have a higher temperature than the mash. If the water in the HTL had the same temperature as your desired mash temp then you would have to wait for the mash to reach a significantly lower temperature in order for there being any measurable heat exchange at all, making it practically impossible to maintain the desired mash temperature. You would then drive the pump based on measured mash temp to maintain your target temperature.

Correct, i don't think i worded it correctly...

Say my strike temp is 165. The temp in the hlt has to be 165 or even a couple degrees higher. When i dough in, the temp will drop to my desired mash temp. For conversation let's say 152.

So now the temp in my mash is 152 but the hlt is still at 165. How do i get that temp back down closer to mash temp? I know the hlt will be a couple degrees hotter than mash but not 13 degrees..

Make sense?

 

[Youngster]

If you want to have any amount of heat exchange the water in the HLT mus have a higher temperature than the mash. If the water in the HTL had the same temperature as your desired mash temp then you would have to wait for the mash to reach a significantly lower temperature in order for there being any measurable heat exchange at all, making it practically impossible to maintain the desired mash temperature. You would then drive the pump based on measured mash temp to maintain your target temperature.

This is why I love our 50A panel. Heat your Boil to your strike water and let the HLT sit at the normal temp.

 

[Rob2010SS]

This is why I love our 50A panel. Heat your Boil to your strike water and let the HLT sit at the normal temp.

Interesting.... So, on a 30A panel, you could heat your HLT to your mash temp or maybe even 5-10 degrees hotter, kill it, turn on your BK and heat your strike water to maybe 5-10 degrees above strike temp and transfer to mash tun and then dough in. This would accomplish the same thing, right?

This is one solution to handle my question above. Got any other ideas to solve that?

 

[Youngster]

Another question to add here.

In an eherms system, you heat the hlt to your strike temp which is obviously hotter than your planned mash temp. You transfer your desired volume from your hlt to your mash tun, you dough in and hopefully hit your mash temp.

How do you bring the temp in your hlt back down to your mash temp so you don't overheat your mash? Do you just add cold water to it?

If you add cold water to the hlt to cool it down to mash temp, how do you maintain water profile?

If you add cold water, adjust the amount of sparge water in w/e program you use and add the difference between the lower and higher amounts of water