Gelatin in keg question.

[natural]

Hey everyone,

Just have a question regarding gelatin in kegs. I added gelatin to my chilled keg yesterday. I am just curious if I draw a pint before it reaches maximum clarity, like 24 hours later will I be sucking put all the gelatin and halt the process or will it continue to clear it up over the days to come?

 

[day_trippr]

As the gelatin "net" works by gathering opposite charged debris as it sinks to the bottom, anything that's within reach of the dip tube is pretty much spent...

Cheers!

 

[Puddlethumper]

I just read a post where someone said using gelatin for fining may remove some of the hop flavor/aroma. I hadn't heard this before. If you use gelatin for fining do you have an opinion you'd care to share?

 

[wtfDean]

I just read that thread too! I have no idea what they could be referring to, since the gelatin is only collecting the particulate in the beer (and as far as I know, hop flavor should not come from suspended particulate!). In my opinion, based on my knowledge, there really shouldn't be much flavor/aroma loss due to fermenter finings. I am not an expert, however. Someone feel free to correct me for being a fool.

edit: by "much flavor/aroma loss" i meant "ANY flavor/aroma loss"

 

[Dolomieu]

IMHO that's a myth. I've used it on ipas and such with no issue. I haven't used it in a while though. I would though, if I needed it.

 

[kcmobrewer]

I use it quite frequently, and the majority of the beers I brew are IPAs/DIPAs. I honestly notice 0 difference in flavor or aroma and my beers look amazing.

I just add it, let it sit a day or two in the kegerator, and after the first couple of pints its crystal clear.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I've just started using it as a matter of practice when moving my lighter beers either to the settling tank or to the keg. It does seem to clarify the beer but I haven't been working with it long enough to formulate an opinion on flavor impact. I went into it figuring it wouldn't affect flavors much at all.

 

[natural]

I've seen these questions everywhere while researching other questions about using gelatin before I decided to use it. But get a mix match of answers but like dolomiue I think that's a perfect answer. People can speculate but there's some hands on experience.

How long does gelatin take to clear up a beer? I should just find some patience. I won't be drinking. It until at least Saturday, so I ought to let it sit haha. Just curious for future reference.

Thanks everyone!

 

[day_trippr]

If you use the gelatin on a cold keg, it's going to precipitate out within a couple of days and be pretty much done. More time under cold conditioning usually results in clearer beer, but one would expect the gelatin would have already cleaned house, so to speak...

Cheers!

 

[pjj2ba]

If used properly, you should not get any gelatin chunks in the keg. The idea is to disperse it throughout the beer quickly after adding it. This dilutes it and keeps if from clumping together. Now, rather than looking for other gelatin proteins to hook up to and form a gel, they grab ahold of other things suspended in the beer. Just like a snowflake, they continue to grow until they get large enough to settle out.

If you are getting blobs of gelatin, then you need to change some things with your procedure. The blobs don't do much to help clear a beer.

 

[Puddlethumper]

If used properly, you should not get any gelatin chunks in the keg.

If you are getting blobs of gelatin, then you need to change some things with your procedure. The blobs don't do much to help clear a beer.

I ran across this link in another thread and have been following this guy's procedure. It not only eliminates any chunks but also pasteurizes the product before it is introduced into the beer:

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06/how-to-clear-your-beer-with-gelatin.html

 

[kombat]

I use gelatin in almost all of my beers (I don't bother with dark ones), and I've read the same concerns about stripping out precious hop flavour and aroma (by pulling out the oils). Thus, I use a slightly modified protocol to clear my IPAs/DIPAs with gelatin. I've posted it here before, but here it is again:

• Ferment in primary for 3 full weeks
• Replace airlock with sanitized foil and elastic bands, move carboy into fridge to cold crash
• 1 day later, prepare the gelatin solution and add it to the carboy, leaving it in the fridge
• 3-4 days later, rack the beer to a 5 gallon carboy, leave it out of the fridge, add dry hops, seal with bung and airlock
• Let it sit on the dry hops at room temperature for 7 days
• Replace airlock with sanitized foil and elastic bands, move carboy into fridge to cold crash again. NO GELATIN THIS TIME.
• 3-4 days later, rack to a sanitized keg purged with CO2, seal, and begin carbonating

Applying the gelatin before the dry hopping adds a few days to the schedule, but it ensures none of the aroma imparted by the dry hops is being stripped out by the gelatin, while still allowing me to end up with very clear to completely clear beer.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Applying the gelatin before the dry hopping adds a few days to the schedule, but it ensures none of the aroma imparted by the dry hops is being stripped out by the gelatin, while still allowing me to end up with very clear to completely clear beer.

I'll bet that turns out a great beer, too!

 

[natural]

I didn't pour a pint until 48 hours after adding it. Everything cleared up nice.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I didn't pour a pint until 48 hours after adding it. Everything cleared up nice.

Just drew my first pint of a cream ale that has been a crowd pleaser for so long. This was the first batch I've made of this beer using gelatin for finings. I definitely agree that it strips some of the flavor/aroma from the beer. With bigger beers, such as my APA the loss isn't that noticeable. Perhaps that is because the recipe provides a lot of flavor/aroma from the outset. But with this super-light cream ale it took almost all the flavor out of the beer!

I'm going to give it another few days to mellow and finish carbonating. If the flavor hasn't picked up I intend to hang a bag of Willamette in the keg for a few days to see if it will add back some of the lost flavor and aroma.

 

[Thedutchtouch]

I've had the same recipe with and without gelatin. The clearer one seemed to have just a touch less yeast bite (though to be honest this could have been my eyes tasting for me) I did not notice any difference in taste or aroma of hops. Ymmv, and you can always throw some hops in the keg to dry hop if you feel like it loses a bit.

 

[Puddlethumper]

(though to be honest this could have been my eyes tasting for me)

Well said. That was in the back of my mind as well.

 

[jwalker1140]

I'm going to try this for the first time when I keg an APA this weekend.

I crashed the beer in the primary on Thursday so it will be ~40F when it goes into the keg. Should I add the gelatin to the keg and rack the beer onto it or should I rack the beer into the keg and then stir in the gelatin? Does it matter? And can I go ahead and turn on the gas right away?

 

[rlmiller10]

Would using gelatin for fining have any affect on being able to wash and reuse the yeast?

 

[Puddlethumper]

I don't think it matters a whole lot. I have made up my gelatin mix and then had it ready when racking to the keg or secondary vessel. The gelatin mix is usually still pretty warm at that point so I fill the keg/carboy half full or more then dump in the gelatin mix.



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[Puddlethumper]

Would using gelatin for fining have any affect on being able to wash and reuse the yeast?

The gelatin just binds up with proteins so they'll drop out. I don't think it has any effect on the yeast.



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[jwalker1140]

The gelatin just binds up with proteins so they'll drop out. I don't think it has any effect on the yeast.

Are you sure about this last part? Maybe I'm confused but I thought the main point of using gelatin was to bind up with the yeast and drop it out. And that's why I'm not going to add it until I get the beer off the yeast cake.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Are you sure about this last part? Maybe I'm confused but I thought the main point of using gelatin was to bind up with the yeast and drop it out. And that's why I'm not going to add it until I get the beer off the yeast cake.

Although it is possible that gelatin may bind up with some stray yeast cells floating around, most of the yeast has flocculated and dropped to the bottom of the vessel before you ever consider adding fining agents.

Gelatin binds up the proteins that are responsible for chill haze. I seriously doubt gelatin would kill the yeast if you added it to a primary vessel. But if you want to know about potential adverse effects on yeast you might want to experiment with this a bit or someone else with specific knowledge may chime in.

Your procedure is correct though. The gelatin is usually added to either the keg as you rack the beer off the chilled primary or it is added to a secondary vessel such as a 5 gal. carboy being used as a settling tank. In the first case the beer carbs up for a few days to a week and then you pull a couple cloudy pints and you're good to go. In the latter case the gelatin works in the settling tank for a few days and then the chilled and clear beer is then racked to a bottling bucket or keg. In either case the yeast cake never comes in contact with the gelatin.

 

[fearwig]

Gelatin does bind up most of the yeast. And that's a good thing! It makes for a nice, firm cake. Which is great, whether you keg or bottle.

I reuse yeast, every batch. Gelatin assists in this.

There. Is. Always. Enough. Yeast. Get the tattoo. No one has EVER removed so much yeast they can't bottle carb, unless they filter or pasteurize.

 

[Puddlethumper]

There. Is. Always. Enough. Yeast. Get the tattoo. No one has EVER removed so much yeast they can't bottle carb, unless they filter or pasteurize.

For normal situations I completely agree with you. But at the risk of picking at some nits, I have encountered a situation where there simply wasn't enough viable yeast available to bottle carbonate. That occurred when I made a batch of Russian Imperial Stout that lived in the secondary for about 7 months before bottling. I have since learned that it is common practice to add a half packet of dry yeast to the bottling bucket to get things started again when making these beers.

But again, for all practical purposes, with the beers we make every day, I believe you are completely correct. And Mr. jwalker has nothing to be concerned about.

 

[rlmiller10]

Gelatin does bind up most of the yeast. And that's a good thing! It makes for a nice, firm cake. Which is great, whether you keg or bottle.

I reuse yeast, every batch. Gelatin assists in this.

There. Is. Always. Enough. Yeast. Get the tattoo. No one has EVER removed so much yeast they can't bottle carb, unless they filter or pasteurize.

Thank you for the experienced answer. It is what I suspected but nice to have some knowledgeable confirmation

 

[gbx]

I think gelatin improves the taste of a beer. Aside from improving the appearance and head retention, removing the yeast makes a cleaner tasting beer. Hops and malt pop when they aren't obscured by muddy yeasty flavours.

And you should harvest the yeast before adding any finings.

 

[fearwig]

For normal situations I completely agree with you. But at the risk of picking at some nits, I have encountered a situation where there simply wasn't enough viable yeast available to bottle carbonate. That occurred when I made a batch of Russian Imperial Stout that lived in the secondary for about 7 months before bottling. I have since learned that it is common practice to add a half packet of dry yeast to the bottling bucket to get things started again when making these beers.

But again, for all practical purposes, with the beers we make every day, I believe you are completely correct. And Mr. jwalker has nothing to be concerned about.

That's true, a high-alcohol beer with long, long bulk aging is an exception, this is when you repitch before bottling. Not so much because you don't have enough yeast as because what yeast you have is exhausted. In normal applications there is nothing you can do short of pasteurization or filtering to stop your yeast.