gelatin finings?

[Auger]

There are a lot of great experiments on that site. To be clear - its not mine, just sharing.

 

[stickyfinger]

Nice thread here. I just read it all. I have been fining my last few beers. I find that if I chill my primary down to freezing or at least 38F, I can add no more than 1/2 pack of knox gelatin (~ 1.5 tsp or so) and get incredibly clear beer in no more than 4 days.

I am almost certain my pale ale that I used this approach on lost some hop character. I don't think I'll use gelatin again on a hoppy beer.

Has anyone tried any experiments (besides the Brulosopher) on fining vs not-fining to see how it impacts hops and malt character?

On my most recent beer I decided to drop back to 1/2 tsp per 5 gallons, and we'll see how well it works in just a couple days. I really like having the yeast out of suspension, as they add nothing to the character of the beer except in so far as hop aroma and flavor may be tied up with them somehow.

Just trying to get some more information on how fining really impacts the flavor of the beer as regards hop and malt character as opposed to removing the yeast bite and negative flavors associated with yeasty beer.

 

[dhelegda]

You are correct on the stripping out some of the hop character, I just did an IPA and it's more of a Pale Ale... It's still delicious!

 

[stickyfinger]

I don't mind boosting my hops to compensate if I have a beer style where I'm not going for the maximum hop character, but I think I'd just stick with a slow clearing for an IPA. I really need to do my own experiment though. Maybe the tradeoff of non-yeasty beer from the get-go is worth the reduced hoppiness. I guess it also depends on the yeast and the rest of the recipe formulation as to how the beer tastes when it is yeasty.

 

[cjgenever]

I started filtering not too long ago. I noticed a drop in hop aroma, flavor, and bitterness. The same happens with gelatin. I think the problem isn't the fining, but the loss of the yeast. Just compensate with more hops.

 

[stickyfinger]

I just fined an ESB with 1/2 tsp of gelatin. As I was kegging it, it appeared that it had not fined quite as well as when I used 1/2 of a package (my first attempts at fining I used 1/2 of a package.) It did drop a fair amount of yeast though. I think I might be getting closer to the right ball park for the amount to use. I still have a lot of experimenting to do I guess. I'd like to just do split-batch fine vs no-fine, but that will take up two half-kegs!

 

[The_Bishop]

You need to cold crash first, *then* add 1/2 envelope of knox gelatin dissolved in water and heated to 150-160 degrees. Then keep it cold-crashed for another 2-3 days. The result is crystal clear beer.

 

[stickyfinger]

You need to cold crash first, *then* add 1/2 envelope of knox gelatin dissolved in water and heated to 150-160 degrees. Then keep it cold-crashed for another 2-3 days. The result is crystal clear beer.

I found that as well. I'm wondering if adding less gelatin will result in adequate clearing and less flavor removal though. I still have a lot to learn about how to change the process when using gelatin.

 

[The_Bishop]

To be honest, I think whatever is removed is the source of astringent/green beer flavors. My beers end up being cleaner and crisper tasting. Even stouts benefit from it and seem to mature sooner.

 

[stickyfinger]

I just tasted my ESB with 0.5 tsp gelatin for finings last night. It was pretty clear, just a bit of haze, and nice maltiness. Hard to argue with gelatin!

 

[VegasBrew1]

I just started fining with gelatin. I cold crash in primary after sufficient clean up time. Once beer is @ +.5C I add 1 tsp Knox with about 4 oz of RO water. Heated to 150F, I've just poured it in gently or pour in and stir. Remarkable effect. I think I'll keg dry hop AFTER I fine just to ensure I'm not losing hop aroma and flavor.

Which brings up a question. Ya'll think I can give up on kettle finings? I've used Irish Moss and lately Whirlfloc, but neither seemed to have a great effect. Perhaps it's because I'm unable to cool wort as quickly as I should.

 

[kombat]

I don't know, that's a great question. I've never actually done a controlled test to see if the Irish moss was actually doing anything. I'd be interested to hear what others have to say on the topic, particularly someone who's done it both ways.

 

[FatsSchindee]

The brulosopher did an exBEERiment about this:
http://brulosophy.com/2015/03/16/the-irish-moss-effect-exbeeriment-results/

 

[The_Bishop]

I have noticed a distinct difference in cold break and chill haze between using whirlfloc and not. Cold break seems to be 'larger' and clumps much more readily with the use of whirlfloc. I've also done a beer or two without gelatin, the ones without whirlfloc have more chill haze, despite an extremely rapid cooling.

 

[bendog15]

+1 on the brulosopher. I use whirfloc in the last 15 min of boil, and add gelatin to carboy before cold crash. My beer has never been clearer.

 

[The_Bishop]

If you really want to see whirlfloc shine, put it in at 5 minutes left. 15 minutes denatures/breaks down a large portion of what makes it work.

 

[UndeadFred]

I never read that particular one before but I feel better now (thanks!) because I forget to add in Irish Moss about every third boil I do.

I don't forget anything else... just that...

And yep, I just forgot it in my first lager (where it might actually matter).

Oh well, it will be the first beer I try gelatin in anyway...

Fred

 

[VegasBrew1]

I was told 7 minutes, which is really nit picking. But that is my magic # and SOP. I still think for my situation, a quicker cool down would provide greater honest product evals. Cheers.

 

[BrewerDon]

I have had great success with using gelatin in the past. I bloom for an hour in cold water. Heat to 160. Stir the solution into the cloudy beer for about 2 minutes. I usually get very clear beer in 2 to 3 days.

However, on my last batch, it did not clear. Perhaps it was because I had not racked the beer to secondary like I normally do? Perhaps it is due to something else.

Any suggestions on how I can clear the beer at this point?

I have since racked to secondary. Would there be any harm in trying gelatin again?

Or, are there other ways to clear the beer that I should try at this point?

 

[kombat]

Are you chilling the beer first?

 

[Nico93]

I'm starting using finning agent in the last brews, so I'm doing some experiment
The most interesting in this: I bottle a session ipa with a huge dryhop, in one bottle I put a little bit of isinglass, guess which has isinglass in:

 

[The_Bishop]

Stir the solution into the cloudy beer for about 2 minutes.

Don't do that. Just pour it in, it will disperse on it's own. Stirring is going to pick up all the trub on the bottom, and it's going to risk oxygenating/infecting your beer.

 

[genel41]

If I win I want the Amber Waves - West Coast Ale All-Grain Recipe Kit

 

[Auger]

I bloom for an hour in cold water. Heat to 160. Stir the solution into the cloudy beer for about 2 minutes. I usually get very clear beer in 2 to 3 days.

Just curious, I've seen this before and never understood. What is the purpose of "blooming" the gelatin? What does that even mean? I've always just dumped the gelatin into water and started microwaving it right away until it hits 160, then into the keg it goes.

 

[fun4stuff]

Just curious, I've seen this before and never understood. What is the purpose of "blooming" the gelatin? What does that even mean? I've always just dumped the gelatin into water and started microwaving it right away until it hits 160, then into the keg it goes.

I'm also curious if this makes a difference. I've only bloomed the last time and it didn't seem any different than all the other times I didn't bloom. Also, while I get some clearing in two days it always takes a couple weeks for me to get the most clarity.

 

[The_Bishop]

How cold are you getting the beer?

I'll typically crash down to 32-33f (0c) before adding gelatin. I'll add 1/8 ounce of gelatin to roughly 1/3 cup of cool RO water. I'll let it 'bloom' for a minute or two before microwaving it in short bursts up to 150-155f (65-68c). Then I pour it right into the fermenter and continue to keep it at 32f (0c) for a few days. Within 2-3 days the beer is brilliantly clear, usually enough to read through... unless it's a stout or other dark beer. For what it's worth, I also gelatin fine dark beers. Getting the yeast and other proteins crashed out helps the flavor immensely.

 

[ill4delph]

Does anyone have any experience bottle conditioning after fining with gelatine? I'm planning on giving it a whirl, but I wanted to see if anyone thought there would be enough residual yeast, of they have added yeast after racking into a bottling bucket.

 

[Konadog]

Does anyone have any experience bottle conditioning after fining with gelatine?

I had the same question the first time I used gelatin. IMO, don't worry about it! Do things as you normally would do them when bottling/kegging. The only thing I noticed a difference in was, I now only get a fine dusting of yeast on the bottom of my bottles instead of a layer of crap

 

[ill4delph]

I had the same question the first time I used gelatin. IMO, don't worry about it! Do things as you normally would do them when bottling/kegging. The only thing I noticed a difference in was, I now only get a fine dusting of yeast on the bottom of my bottles instead of a layer of crap

Thanks Kona! I'll give it a shot bottling like normal.

 

[VegasBrew1]

My experience was that it clarified the beer quite well. However, it took longer for the beer to bottle carb. If you've got a pipeline, no worries. If not, be prepared for even longer wait times. I think my experience was 6 weeks rather than the normal 3.