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EdWort said:
Not to worry though, our esteemed politicians are going to take those evil profits away from the evil oil companies.
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Kanjorski said his legislation will encourage oil companies to lower prices to prevent them from receiving higher tax rates.
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Wow, really!? That's beyond failing econ 101. That's failing Common F*cking Sense 101. Yeah, *****enozzle, they're gonna lower their prices to avoid higher tax rates.

They'll never just cut back the supply lines. Oh, no, never. :cross:

The stupidity of some people just blows me away.
 
Yuri_Rage said:
It's not really that simple. Supply clearly exceeds demand, since nearly every pump is always open at every gas station, and almost every gas station is open 24/7. Also, oil companies are recording record profits during a time when the rest of the (US) economy is on its way to the crapper. Indeed, it's a simple economics problem, but it's not a supply/demand example. It's more of a monopolistic model. When there are relatively few suppliers of an extremely high demand product, those suppliers can, in essence, charge whatever they damn well please. Those in demand of the product wind up getting screwed, so long as they find it necessary to buy. Since most of us aren't in a position to significantly cut our gas consumption, we're stuck. The sensationalism of oil issues by the media only serves to rationalize the oil companies' price increases.
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Huh. I'd-a-thunk you were a republican, yet these sound like democrat words. :p
 
Yuri_Rage said:
It's not really that simple. Supply clearly exceeds demand, since nearly every pump is always open at every gas station, and almost every gas station is open 24/7. Also, oil companies are recording record profits during a time when the rest of the (US) economy is on its way to the crapper. Indeed, it's a simple economics problem, but it's not a supply/demand example. It's more of a monopolistic model. When there are relatively few suppliers of an extremely high demand product, those suppliers can, in essence, charge whatever they damn well please. Those in demand of the product wind up getting screwed, so long as they find it necessary to buy. Since most of us aren't in a position to significantly cut our gas consumption, we're stuck. The sensationalism of oil issues by the media only serves to rationalize the oil companies' price increases.
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It's not even that simple: oil is traded as a commodity so there is an added component to the problem when people are speculating on what the prices will do.

Furthermore, the way the value of oil is compared is based on the US dollar, which has become a very volatile currency of late and this skews the results in dramatic ways.


I haven't done the math, but I'd venture to guess that a large portion of the 'rise in gas prices' is attributable directly to the drop in US Dollar value.

And I'll say it again: 'record profits' is meaningless as 'record opening movie weekend' because it is only a record in terms of dollar amounts. In terms of return on investment those 'record profits' are rather mundane, even poor if you also consider the drop in the value of the dollar.


/for the record: not a republican
//also not a democrat
///no party affiliation-- just a guy who thinks instead of self applying labels
 
Think gas prices are bad? Try Owning your own semi right about now, I know three guys that just put for sale signs in the window because they cant afford it.
 
More news on our uber intelligent politicians who know better for us.

[FONT=times new roman,times]Senator Chuck Schumer claims that coercing Saudi Arabia to increase oil production by 1 million barrels a day would drop the per barrel price by $25, saving Americans 62 cent per gallon at the gas pump. Yet, somehow, that same amount of oil coming from Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge would only ease oil prices by a penny.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]In a Senate floor speech he gave on May 13th, the New York Democrat [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]insisted[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times] that:[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman,times]"If Saudi Arabia were to increase its production by 1 million barrels per day that translates to a reduction of 20 percent to 25 percent in the world price of crude oil, and crude oil prices could fall by more than $25 dollar per barrel from its current level of $126 per barrel. In turn, that would lower the price of gasoline between 13 percent and 17 percent, or by more than 62 cents off the expected summer regular-grade price - offering much needed relief to struggling families. "[/FONT]
​
[FONT=times new roman,times]Schumer repeated these words almost verbatim when grilling oil company executives during yesterday's Senate Judiciary Committee hearings.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Yet Schumer's daily magic number of 1 million barrels is the exact increase experts believe we would today be pumping through the Alyeska pipeline had Bill Clinton not vetoed ANWR drilling back in 1995. And even the most rabid anti-domestic-drilling Democrats don't take issue with that figure. [/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]So then, the increase he demands of "Bush's friends," the Saudis - which he claims would reduce prices by up to 25 percent -- is the exact amount he [/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times]argued[/FONT][FONT=times new roman,times] earlier this month would only "reduce the price of oil by a penny" were it coming from ANWR - eco-sacred breeding ground of the Porcupine Caribou.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]It doesn't take a Ph.D in economics to know that both figures can't be right.[/FONT]
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From what I understand it has more to do with the weak dollar than supply and demand.

The weaker the economy gets the weaker the dollar gets the more money is being pulled out of the stock market and put into black gold which is paying a higher rate of return than gold gold.

And even though the oil company's are sitting on top of a mountain of cash every quarter, and all the experts say that theres no shortage of oil, they still have to buy extra oil on the open market to make gas, and the true price of gas isn't being reflected at the pump because the demand is below predictions for this time of year.

Whats throwing a monkey wrench into the equation is gas is becoming cheaper for other nations because oil is bought in US dollars which has become cheap to get. SOOO they can afford more.

I think right now America and others Nations are in a catch 22 and we're all taking it in the A%%

Did you know also that oil has gone up 400% since Bush took office. I look for the price to come down after He's out of office.
 
Fact of the Matter is, Oil will never come down until more refineries are built, The value of the dollar goes up and we drill the oil we have in our country.
 
While I agree with Evan and the economics of the situation. I also think it is a bit of a scam/ conspiracy theory on the part of car manufacturers. There is technology out there which can increase the MPG for any car to well past what we have currently. To which I ask this question. Since the oil companies are raising prices because of "supply and demand", what are the car manufacturers doing? They have the technology to increase MPG for any car, yet they chose not to. I don't think anyone can claim supply and demand on their part. You can say the technology would cost more which I agree with, but Im sure it wouldnt break the bank. They are now starting to feel the crunch. Yesterday Ford announced they are not going to produce as many trucks and SUV's. We'll it took them long enough to catch on.

If we really want things to change then we could use a variety of things make this happen. Ride a bike, refuse to buy gas for a week or two (no demand there), carpool, don't buy gas guzzlers, everyone could negotiate the price of gas(far fetched I know) but negoitation is something everyone used to do when obtaining goods, demand or rather get involed in ways to change the energy we use for transportation.

Just a thought.
 
EdWort said:
More news on our uber intelligent politicians who know better for us.

It doesn't take a Ph.D in economics to know that both figures can't be right.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, I think it takes several pH D's to even try to estimate it. The straight price of a finished product (barrels bought from the Saudi's) does not equal a barrel produced domestically. There will be billions of dollars invested to get those barrels out of the ground and delivered, so, no, the cost won't be the same. The pertinent question (at least at first) would be "when is the break even for the investment". At that point, the prices might start coming down. Would those oil reserve's at full capacity production, last long enough to reach that break even point? (I make no claim to know an answer).
Then there is the international politics part of this. Suppose we did drill Californina waters and ANWR. Here is what the Saudis would do. They would wait for a critical point in the investment cycle and drop the price of oil so that their "competition" would get clobbered. As I read in a recent Forbes magazine, the Saudis love the instability. Their ideal pricing per barrel looks like
$100, $100, $100, $100, $10, $100...
As long as we keep playing the petroleum game, we are at massive disadvantage. These are the considerations that Presidents are making, not so much "save the Caribou" as the press spins it. The oil companies don't want to drill these areas to save the country, they want to go in and have the government (our money) shield them from that risk, basically guaranteeing them profit in light of the above scenario.
I wonder if, instead of going to war, we said "lets spend a few trillion dollars on technology development and subsidies to completely change our energy options" what would have happened. Probably would have been worse for the mid east than a month of nuclear carpet bombing. Only about as ludicrous as putting a man on the moon at the time.
Oh well.
 
Evan! said:
Wow, really!? That's beyond failing econ 101. That's failing Common F*cking Sense 101. Yeah, *****enozzle, they're gonna lower their prices to avoid higher tax rates.

They'll never just cut back the supply lines. Oh, no, never. :cross:

The stupidity of some people just blows me away.
Click to expand...

Here's the *****enozzle Kanjorski in action. The truth about politicians revealed.

 
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Germey said:
With all due respect, I think it takes several pH D's to even try to estimate it.
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Perhaps, but the point the writer was trying to make is that Chuckie Schumer was talking out both ends. Which end was BS? Perhaps both?

How can you tell when a politician is lying?

When his lips move. :cross:
 
EdWort said:
Perhaps, but the point the writer was trying to make is that Chuckie Schumer was talking out both ends. Which end was BS? Perhaps both?

How can you tell when a politician is lying?

When his lips move. :cross:
Click to expand...

Of course, never meant to dispute that! (there is no icon for mix of sarcasm, shame, and disgust if feel for politicians) so I'll just :mug: instead.
 
Germey said:
As long as we keep playing the petroleum game, we are at massive disadvantage. These are the considerations that Presidents are making, not so much "save the Caribou" as the press spins it. The oil companies don't want to drill these areas to save the country, they want to go in and have the government (our money) shield them from that risk, basically guaranteeing them profit in light of the above scenario.
I wonder if, instead of going to war, we said "lets spend a few trillion dollars on technology development and subsidies to completely change our energy options" what would have happened. Probably would have been worse for the mid east than a month of nuclear carpet bombing. Only about as ludicrous as putting a man on the moon at the time.
Oh well.
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Yup! :mug:
 
It's been a long time in coming and our goverment and the American people better get things figured out fast or we will be a 3rd world country.

If we can win the big one, put a man on the moon and defeat communism we can do this also.
 
devaspawn said:
In Venezuela they are paying ~$3 a TANK to fill up SUVs.

:tank:
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Very true, and.... that nasty little devil Chavez did the unthinkable by providing many underpriveledge people in MA last winter with free or low cost fuel. So let's just keep pissing him off and see how it turns out.
 
I think the consipracy theory people need some info. The oil compaines/refineries are required, because of politics (both national and state level), to make different formulations of thier product to comply with various additive regulations, ie sulphur content, percentage of ethanol, etc.
As of the year 2000 there were 12 varities for each grade, so there are 36 different versions of the "gas formula." Additionally the various state EPA's require the refineries to combat smog by requiring these 12 variants to have a summer blend and a winter blend. The switch over from summer to winter blend usually happens around Memorial Day. At that point the refineries need to decide whether to make 72 versions of gas, or shut down for the switch over. most refineries are taken offline for the switchover No production = higher cost.
Additionally although "Big Oil" has earned trillions of profit, i recall seeing that the the margin is only around 8% ish. In my state the combination of fed and state taxes is $0.58/gal. Of the the $4.29/gal I paid yesterday (based on the 8% profit) the nasty Oil Companies made $0.30/gal, while the state took $0.58/gal. Wow almost double!
What happens to state budgets when we do finally stop using gasoline. Well they'll just have to recoup the lost tax dollars by taxing fuel cells, and electricity.
I don't offer any solutions to the problem. I'm just bi**hing about the bi**hers
 
GreenwoodRover said:
What happens to state budgets when we do finally stop using gasoline. Well they'll just have to recoup the lost tax dollars by taxing fuel cells, and electricity.
I don't offer any solutions to the problem. I'm just bi**hing about the bi**hers
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And Porn such as CA is proposing to do!

I do have a question though. You say they shut down some refineries when the switch occurs. Yet the claim by many is there are not enough refineries for production, which brings costs up. Is it just me is there a total disconnect there?
 
RICLARK said:
Fact of the Matter is, Oil will never come down until more refineries are built, The value of the dollar goes up and we drill the oil we have in our country.
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refineries have nothing to do with the price of oil. The US has steadily been increasing the sale of petro refined here to Mexico and Europe.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mdiexmx1M.htm

FEb 2008 we sold 1,322,000 barrels of diesel to Mexico. The price of diesel in Baja Mexico is 2.09 -granted the price is subsidized by the Mexican government

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_exp_dc_NUS-Z00_mbblpd_m.htm

so clearly we are producing enough refined petro products to supply the US and sell some overseas. I believe we sell 500,000 gallons a day of diesel to Europe Why?because now its that ULSD crap that the Europeans have been using. The oil companies will sell to whom ever will pay. So even if we drill here it will be sold on the world market at the going rate .

When and if the dollar regains its strength the price will drop. The US dollar is very week now just ask PeteOz a few years ago the AUS Dollar was about 50 cents American now they are just about equal .


And and it cost me 166$ to fill my truck last night $5.199 for diesel . Glad my bike gets 45 MPG
 
GreenwoodRover said:
What happens to state budgets when we do finally stop using gasoline.
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That's what has happened in California. Loads of people moved to more efficient cars and the gas tax revenue dropped as people consumed less.

What do the wonderful politicians in the Peoples Republic of California want to do now? They want to force drivers to have a GPS tracking device installed in each car and make them pay by the mile. 95% of Californians appose such a solution, but you know, some unelected judge will know better and decide for you (even after you decided anyway).
 
What did we expect would happen when we have not had a new refinery built in the USA for just about 30 years?

Would you say we have more cars on the roads now? Sure. and they are bigger too!

We have the oil, the problem is when it gets this high the people doing the trading stop picking it up waiting to see if it goes down and only then buy it when absolutley possible. So yeah, it is a supply and demand thing, but not with oil persay so much as it is with actual fuel flowing from the refineries.

and whether or not the price was help atificially low or not, i dont care. what i care about is a 300% increase in a basic need for life without the same % increase being reflected in the cost of living wage increases for americans.

And yes, i am truely sorry for all of the other countries having to pay more for gas. you have been for years, and will continue to pay more becuase you have less people and purchase less oil/gas so you cost is more.

Truth of the matter is i would think all in other countries would want our gas to get to a steady price becuase if our economy takes a crap and crumbles, i mean really crumbles, and it will happen if gas goes much more over 4.50 a bbl, you will all suffer along with us. It is a world economy and they are so intertwined anymore that if one goes down we all suffer.
 
bethlehembrewer said:
I do have a question though. You say they shut down some refineries when the switch occurs. Yet the claim by many is there are not enough refineries for production, which brings costs up. Is it just me is there a total disconnect there?
Click to expand...

No disconnect. you read it right. We are woefully short on refineries to meet our demands (our politicians havent allowed a new facility to be built in over 20 years). Yet becuse of the required formulations the some refineries actually have to shut down to make the switch.
 
EdWort said:
That's what has happened in California. Loads of people moved to more efficient cars and the gas tax revenue dropped as people consumed less.

What do the wonderful politicians in the Peoples Republic of California want to do now? They want to force drivers to have a GPS tracking device installed in each car and make them pay by the mile. 95% of Californians appose such a solution, but you know, some unelected judge will know better and decide for you (even after you decided anyway).
Click to expand...

Not to argue with you. However, all judges are elected in some way, maybe not directly. An appointed judge is selected by those we the people elect therefor we had a say in who was put on the bench. I geuss what Im trying to say with that is be careful who you elect for offices. Again not to argue, because I do agree with you on the principle of your argument.
 
GreenwoodRover said:
No disconnect. you read it right. We are woefully short on refineries to meet our demands (our politicians havent allowed a new facility to be built in over 20 years). Yet becuse of the required formulations the some refineries actually have to shut down to make the switch.
Click to expand...

Well that is news to me. Yet it does not suprise me in this country of sometimes complete inefficiency.
 
Evan! said:
A "scam" involves

What I'm really sick of in this country these days is this persistent whining about gas prices breaking $4/gal. It's been like that in most of the world for years. Oh, but we're special! It's a scarce commodity, that is limited...and the fact that we're still driving around in big 10mpg cars is testament to a sad reality: as much as we whine about it, we're not really willing to do anything about it except whine. No, instead, we expect the oil companies to just give their product away for less than people are willing to pay for it. Well, let me ask you this: if you were selling beer, and you charged $10 per six pack, and people were buying it hand over fist at that price, would you just suddenly drop your price to $8 per sixer because some people whined about it?
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If your sick of the whining, why don't you climb off your soap box and do something about it?
 
"Our mythical energy shortage can be dismissed with a few statistics. The U.S. consumes about 71 quads (a 'quad' is one quadrillion BTU's, or 10 to the 15th power British Thermal Units) of energy per year. There is available now in the U.S., excluding solar sources and without oil and gas imports, about 151,000 quads. Consequently, we have sufficient energy resources to keep us functioning at our present rate of consumption for about 2,000 to 3,000 years– without discovering new reserves. Even at higher consumption rates there will be no problem in the next millennium."
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This is over an hour long, but day by day it has consistently been the most viewed video at google.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3340274697167011147&hl=en

He promotes his book in that video, but you can read the book for free on his website, so don't think it's a sales video. He says everything he's saying for free.
 
landhoney said:
BTW Evan!, *****enozzle? Is that an Evan! original? In anycase thank you for constantly expanding my vocabulary. :mug:
Click to expand...

He actually saw them all over the street corners in France when he was over there.

We need to start looking like Taiwan.

Taiwan-Rush-Hour.jpg


That'd piss off big oil, government taxes etc.
 
wildwest450 said:
If your sick of the whining, why don't you climb off your soap box and do something about it?
Click to expand...

What soap box? And exactly what should I do about it, other than tell/ask people to stop whining, and give them reasons why I think their whining is unjustified? Should I force them to shut up? Sorry, that's not my M.O. Like Landhoney, I don't understand your demand. I value the first amendment, so there's not much else I can do to stop other peoples' whining than ask them to stop and give them reasons why.

:rolleyes:

Oh, and Seth---I can't lie: it's not mine. But I sure like it.
 
bethlehembrewer said:
Damn Im glad I don't live in Orange Cty anymore!
Click to expand...


But that tank will last a long time . I have always used my bike for my main transportation during the warmer months. I even put my gasser 2500 GMC van back on the road for when it's crappy out gets about the same MPG as the diesel but its $1.20 a gallon less for regular.

I really only use the CTD to get stone/ mulch/dirt and to tow the trailer
 
Not to worry folks, the esteemed and uber intelligent Maxine Waters of the Peoples Republick of Kalifornia has the solution to our current gas price woes.

 
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Boy, what a debacle! An idiot congresswoman who can't hold her **** together in a meeting and an oil executive who replies to a relatively simple question with a thinly veiled threat, all wrapped up and delivered with that special Fox News Flair.
 

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