Gas Rig: Direct Fire RIMS vs RIMS tube

[auburntsts]

So I'm making plans to upgrade my current stovetop small batch setup to a 15-gal single vessel, gas fired, BIAB rig (to do 5-10 gal batches). I'd like to have more consistency with my mash temps so I'm thinking of adding a RIMS component. Curious as to the pros and cons of one over the other:

1. The Blichmann Tower of Power (Gas version) or a DIY version of the TOP

2. 120v RIMS tube

I suppose a 3rd option would be to skip the RIMS altogether (not interested in doing anything but single infusion mashes) and just insulate the kettle to keep temp drop to a minimum and not obsess about it.

Thoughts?

 

[Keith81]

I'm working on a similar decision (insulated tun vs RIMS, TOP is out of my budget) although I'm going the 3 vessel single tier route.

Some conclusions I've come to: 1. It's hard to beat an insulated tun with single infusion for simplicity but you are looking at BIAB so it would be less insulated than something like a cooler.
2. I don't know about the TOP but it looks like overkill for a BIAB setup. I'd probably choose a RIMS tube with a PID controller over the TOP in your setup. Just be sure the RIMS tube is properly designed if you DIY, the warnings of possible explosion are my main hang up and I'm looking at buying a pre-made kit so I know it's designed correctly.

 

[eric19312]

I did a DIY TOP on my three vessel system. Savings might have been 50% but it is quite a bit to figure out if you haven't done anything similar before (as I hadn't). It ended up being a fun project and works really well.

The savings is less than you would hope because the gas fired RIMS requires a solenoid valve. I was not confident enough to go with anything cheap and did the Honeywell with pilot light and thermocouple. I think this is same as TOP. This adds quite a bit of complexity to the overall build.

Doing it over again as a 3 vessel system I'd seriously consider the electric RIMS, possibly with some insulation on the mash tun.

But not sure for BIAB. I am thinking with BIAB you are mashing and boiling in same kettle. So while electric might be ok during mash not sure you would be happy with it (120v on say 12 gallons) during boil. I get away with one of the very small burners turned way down low to hold mash temps but need the big banjo cranking to get to boil (I use household low pressure NG which is a whole other discussion). I guess you could automate mash temp via the electric RIMS and manually control a burner for boiling. But you probably would want to stay away from insulating the kettle if you are going to boil over gas.

 

[auburntsts]

Yeah so to clarify, if I were to go electric RIMS tube, that would only be for maintaining mash temps. Heating strike water and the subsequent post-mash boil would be strictly manual gas (propane).

As for insulation in a no-RIMS, no attempt at mash temp adjustment setup, as this will be a single vessel I'm talking something that is removable for the boil, like a sleeping bag or any kind I'd insulation that could wrap around the kettle and not be permanently attached.

 

[eric19312]

Lol just do the RIMS you know you want to.

 

[augiedoggy]

something like this element
https://www.ebay.com/itm/120v-750w-Heater-Cartridge-Cable-for-Hot-End-295mm-Element-D8-Reprap-etc/322941837981?_trkparms=ao=1&asc=20170105155430&meid=0d098e6c3b98496885c9c5e1317e7864&pid=100706&rk=1&rkt=1&&itm=322941837981&_trksid=p2045573.c100706.m4781
or
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vulcan-Hea...558966?hash=item58dee34776:g:AnsAAOSwUchaBJMW

in a 1" stainless pipe rims made with 2 tees and reducers
using the prewired inkbird controller
https://www.ebay.com/i/222538969580?chn=ps
and you can build a rims that would maintain temps fine for about $200...
I use these food grade high temp pumps (almost 5 years now) the 24v version pumps 3.2gpm max
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-24V-Cer...025395?hash=item25e25536f3:g:Lu4AAOSwE9JZ4GAD

I started with an 800w rims and it maintained fine (I just made the mistake of using narrow copper for my rims tube and buildup happened at the base of the element because I didnt disassemble it each time.

the longer the element you can find the better IMO.

 

[auburntsts]

Thanks. However, I'm not so much interested in how to do it, but more the pros and cons of one method (eg PID controlled direct fire) vs another (eg PID controlled 120v RIMS tube) vs do nothing (just dough in, wrap it with a blanket, and walk away for an hour).

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks. However, I'm not so much interested in how to do it, but more the pros and cons of one method (eg PID controlled direct fire) vs another (eg PID controlled 120v RIMS tube) vs do nothing (just dough in, wrap it with a blanket, and walk away for an hour).

just use a cooler mash tun and call it a day then... The plastic igloo beverage coolers work great to maintain mash temps but have little bling or coolness factor so many go with inferior performing regular kettles or stainless insulated kettles which work almost as well as the better thermally insulated plastic, are more heavy duty but are harder to move around and clean out....
If your BIAB thats a compromise to keep it simple.. your going to have to do things like wrap it in a sleeping bag or make it more complex with rims or herms or do the direct heat re circulation thing some have success with but its going to be more work in the end to maintain every brew session defeating the purpose of BIAB.. theres no superior setup in every way... its all about compromise some start out with fancy single tier setups and go to biab or hot water urn basket setups like robobrew or grainfather for ease and others go the other way with expensive ph meters and fermentation equipment.. It all depends on each brewers priorities I think.

They all can make good beer...

I recommend watching you tube videos or find a brewing club and tag along with others brewing on other systems.. it might save you some dough in making a decision you find wasnt worth it for you.

 

[auburntsts]

just use a cooler mash tun and call it a day then... The plastic igloo beverage coolers work great to maintain mash temps but have little bling or coolness factor so many go with inferior performing regular kettles or stainless insulated kettles which work almost as well as the better thermally insulated plastic, are more heavy duty but are harder to move around and clean out....
If your BIAB thats a compromise to keep it simple.. your going to have to do things like wrap it in a sleeping bag or make it more complex with rims or herms or do the direct heat re circulation thing some have success with but its going to be more work in the end to maintain every brew session defeating the purpose of BIAB.. theres no superior setup in every way... its all about compromise some start out with fancy single tier setups and go to biab or hot water urn basket setups like robobrew or grainfather for ease and others go the other way with expensive ph meters and fermentation equipment.. It all depends on each brewers priorities I think.

They all can make good beer...

I got all that. My question was more specific as to the different options for a 5-10 gal BIAB setup. To put it another way, is one way to maintain mash temps clearly better at performing that task (regardless of cost or complexity) than the others and why?

 

[auburntsts]

To be honest, I'm leaning towards doing nothing more than draping a sleeping bag over the kettle and not worrying about trying to add heat. It's what I do now on the stovetop (albeit with a towel over a much smaller pot). I just want to make sure there's not a better way to get consistent results with a BIAB setup even if that means adding cost and complexity.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Out of curiosity: why not go with a re-circulating BIAB electric vessel? An element in the kettle gives you single vessel plus all the control of a RIMS tube and the ability to do step mashes. If you don't have access to 240v, getting one installed probably isn't too horribly pricey (compared to a ToP). You are already looking at getting an electronic controller, so why not go all in and make your life a bit simpler?

 

[auburntsts]

Out of curiosity: why not go with a re-circulating BIAB electric vessel? An element in the kettle gives you single vessel plus all the control of a RIMS tube and the ability to do step mashes. If you don't have access to 240v, getting one installed probably isn't too horribly pricey (compared to a ToP). You are already looking at getting an electronic controller, so why not go all in and make your life a bit simpler?

We're moving this summer (for 3-5 yr max assignment) and not sure what type of home we'll end up with. As there's a 50/50 chance it could be a townhouse/condo, going gas or a hybrid gas/120V systems makes the most sense to me and would allow me to expand now vs waiting to see if 240v is an option.

 

[augiedoggy]

A rims or herms will maintain temps better than wrapping your kettle in blankets. rims will keep temps exactly where you want them every time and give you repeatable results you can monitor and see. it also will correct your temps if you mash in a bit low and the recirculation will help lower it if you mash in at too high a temp. herms would be silly with BIAB IMHO. but ive seen some silly stuff here including a person using herms and rims at once.

For just rims you absolutely do not need 240v but if your considering the upgrade to full electric I would recommend it as well.
The recirculating direct heating electric BIAB does require a bit more care not to run into scorching in certian circumstances from the multiple reports ive seen of scorching with ULWD elements most of them were used in this configuration.

 

[user 125772]

One of the advantages of RIMS is when you miss the strike temp by a few degrees , you're recirculating so you can see it in real time. So if high, you can add cold water, or if low, the RIMS tube will take care of it. Obviously we take steps to try and hit the target as close as possible, but sometimes the grain is colder or warmer than estimated. Hope that helps.

 

[eric19312]

Thanks. However, I'm not so much interested in how to do it, but more the pros and cons of one method (eg PID controlled direct fire) vs another (eg PID controlled 120v RIMS tube) vs do nothing (just dough in, wrap it with a blanket, and walk away for an hour).

One thing that may matter to you is the PID on direct fire gas RIMS is not running in PID mode. You don’t turn gas on 50% like you can with electric ... it is just on off. At least this is the case for the YOP and similar DIY models. Still works great from my perspective but you may have different expectation for temperature control than me.

 

[bigdawg86]

I just purchased a RIMS system and will be using it tomorrow for the first time. I am using a 10g Home Depot cooler for fly sparge, retangular converted cooler with pump / rims circuit, then direct fire kettle.