Gamma Seal Lids

[smithj2154]

Hey all! I really want to up my amount of bulk storage for sours without buying too many carboys. I know the back and forth on buckets, but I'm wondering if it's the lid that is the issue and not the bucket itself. I was thinking I could buy some Gamma lids and then use my on hand buckets to increase my capacity.

So how about it? anyone think this is a solid idea?
Thanks

 

[broadbill]

I'm not sure you want to store anything in HDPE for long term, considering the oxygen permeability issue. How long, and what specifically about the gamma lid are you interested in?

 

[WI_Wino]

Look for carboys on craigslist. I see them for ~20 bucks. Should be a few dollars more than a new bucket and gamma lid.

 

[milldoggy]

The plastic itself is permeable. Less than a barrel though if I recall correctly. Store away. Make sure they are food grade.

 

[milldoggy]

Oh, gamma seals are 10$ each just use a standard lid with an airlock.

 

[Jawbox0]

Seems like a good excuse to buy more kegs!

 

[smithj2154]

Gamma lids:
Just the normal snap on gamma lids for buckets. I've see a few gamma lid deals on homebrewfinds and that is what got me thinking.

Aging:
I have a one year old lambic style and I just put a fresh batch of the same recipe in a month ago in my better bottles. I was wanting to up the amount I Have going for my Gueuze project while utilizing my on hand supplies.

 

[smithj2154]

I'm not sure you want to store anything in HDPE for long term, considering the oxygen permeability issue. How long, and what specifically about the gamma lid are you interested in?

It's for my Gueuze project. I already have two better bottles aging. One is a year+ and the other is a month. I was wondering if the permeability issue was a result of the lid more so than the bucket itself. which is why I was wanting to start using the gamma.

 

[IslandLizard]

Aside from some permeability, another big issue using buckets for long term bulk aging/sour fermentation is the relatively large and wide headspace. So you need to be able to fill them up as much as possible, which then may give you leaking issues if the lid doesn't seal well.

The regular lid seal on buckets is a toss up, not sure why they sometimes seal well and sometimes not. Some lids have a rubber seal in the groove, but I've never seen the rubber seals for sale anywhere.

If you can seal the lid well, the headspace can be flushed with CO2, at least to an acceptably low enough O2 level.

There are buckets with screw lids, which seat quite deeply. They also have a rubber (neoprene) o-ring in a narrow groove, and seal very well. I was given a bunch of them and use them sometimes for small/split batch fermentations. I drilled a 1" hole in the top for an airlock bung, which doubles as an inspection hole. They come in various sizes, 6.5, 5, 3.5 gallons and smaller. Like these, I'm sure there are others.

Life Latch Buckets and Lids

 

[broadbill]

Seems like a good excuse to buy more kegs!

Or a barrel! Time to do those sours right!

 

[smithj2154]

Or a barrel! Time to do those sours right!

My homebrew club has a couple of barrels for our group brew. A barrel in my gararge would require a lot of sweet talking/ bribing the Mrs.

 

[smithj2154]

Aside from some permeability, another big issue using buckets for long term bulk aging/sour fermentation is the relatively large and wide headspace. So you need to be able to fill them up as much as possible, which then may give you leaking issues if the lid doesn't seal well.

The regular lid seal on buckets is a toss up, not sure why they sometimes seal well and sometimes not. Some lids have a rubber seal in the groove, but I've never seen the rubber seals for sale anywhere.

If you can seal the lid well, the headspace can be flushed with CO2, at least to an acceptably low enough O2 level.

There are buckets with screw lids, which seat quite deeply. They also have a rubber (neoprene) o-ring in a narrow groove, and seal very well. I was given a bunch of them and use them sometimes for small/split batch fermentations. I drilled a 1" hole in the top for an airlock bung, which doubles as an inspection hole. They come in various sizes, 6.5, 5, 3.5 gallons and smaller. Like these, I'm sure there are others.

Life Latch Buckets and Lids

Thanks for the link I saw a couple of those. Great feedback as well, thank you. I was considering the wide top as a problem but like you suggested the CO2 seemed like a reasonable solution.

I think I just need to order a couple lids and give it a go!:rockin:

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the link I saw a couple of those. Great feedback as well, thank you. I was considering the wide top as a problem but like you suggested the CO2 seemed like a reasonable solution.

I think I just need to order a couple lids and give it a go!:rockin:

Don't just get lids, you need the buckets too! They are a matched set, and don't fit regular (brew) buckets.

The lids seal so well, you could actually do (low) pressurized transfers! I had a bucket that had pulled a vacuum, I could not unscrew the lid without letting air back in by drilling a (small) hole in it.

 

[smithj2154]

Don't just get lids, you need the buckets too! They are a matched set, and don't fit regular (brew) buckets.

The lids seal so well, you could actually do (low) pressurized transfers! I had a bucket that had pulled a vacuum, I could not unscrew the lid without letting air back in by drilling a (small) hole in it.

I gotcha, I think I was thinking just normal lids for my on hand buckets. But looking at the cost of those they are not bad. Thanks!

 

[IslandLizard]

I gotcha, I think I was thinking just normal lids for my on hand buckets. But looking at the cost of those they are not bad. Thanks!

As said before, plastic has some inherent O2 permeability. Glass carboys have the least (the bung/airlock being the weakest barrier) and can be had on CL for a good price (~$20). Last year I bought 12 extra glass carboys for sours, from another homebrewer in our club.

So why do barrels work? Well, the big ones do better, less surface per volume, compared to smaller ones.
And the less oxygen, the less acetobacter gets a chance to ruin your party. So reduce that headspace (or CO2 flush it) and seal her up (except for an airlock).

 

[IslandLizard]

I gotcha, I think I was thinking just normal lids for my on hand buckets. But looking at the cost of those they are not bad. Thanks!

They're not expensive, it's the shipping that kills the deal! I just added 4 6.5 gallon buckets with lids. Cost: $47.20, not bad. Now here comes the cold shower:

Estimated UPS Ground Shipping for this order: $37.64​

< ugh> I'd look elsewhere...

Sorry, I didn't realize they'd ream you on shipping. They do have a store so I guess you could pick em up. The building should be easy to spot...

 

[smithj2154]

They're not expensive, it's the shipping that kills the deal! I just added 4 6.5 gallon buckets with lids. Cost: $47.20, not bad. Now here comes the cold shower:

Estimated UPS Ground Shipping for this order: $37.64​

< ugh> I'd look elsewhere...

Sorry, I didn't realize they'd ream you on shipping. They do have a store so I guess you could pick em up. The building should be easy to spot...

Ouch! I am in CA so I don't even want to think about what that would be. lol. But I have a friend in Cincy that works for Fedex maybe he and I can work something out!

 

[IslandLizard]

Well it does pay off to shop around. A Google search for "life latch plastic buckets" reveals many other sources. Here's a vendor that offers free ground shipping and has a lot of other containers. Screw USPlastic.

Here's a (the) manufacturer of Life Latch pails.

To be able to better clean and sanitize, I've managed to lift out the o-ring by sliding a butter knife along the side of the narrow groove. That was my only concern for using them as fermentors. The lids also have reinforcement ridges on the inside, creating a lot of tight corners. They just need some special attention during cleaning.