Gain-father G70 or Build Out my 3 vessel?

[Justintoxicated]

Current setup :

8 gallon Bayou Classic pot with valve.
10 gallon SS Brewtech Pot with whirlpool arm.
Chugger pump,
Cooler Mash Tun with valve and a custom top input.

I was considering picking up the grain-father G70 but also considering just adding on to my current system.

My problem is always hitting my precise mash temp. I can drain from the cooler into the HLT, then pump back up to the mash tun manually if I'm under temp, but it's direct fire and takes allot of tinkering.

I was thinking about getting a herms coil:

• http://stainlessbrewing.3dcartstore...s-25-x-12-x-035-OD-Tubing-304304L-_p_256.html plus valves and fittings (comes out to $156 before shipping)
• This heating element kit https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com...tric-brewery-heating-element-assembly-diy-kit ($159 with 4500 watt element and longer cord).
• This punch for the heating element (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002NQZ0J0/ ($70)
• This controller: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KP6DAXS/ ($350)

Or just get a G70 and be done with it. I'm not crazy about sparging over the raised grain bed, or any other limitations brewing 5-10 gallon batches on the G70 (At GABF I was told brewing 5 gallon batches would be possible with some additional parts).

I could later upgrade my 3 vessel once I get a real brew stand instead of this wooden one I'm currently using. It's allot of stuff to bring outside and setup though. The controller is more primitive on the 3 vessel I guess, but should be enough for now until I upgrade other parts of the system like my mash tun etc.

 

[murphyslaw]

I went through this about 2 years ago. I bought the grainfather and dont regret it one bit.

At the time, the small footprint sold me. Over time, I came to appreciate the simplicity of the brewing process, easy brew days, and easy clean up. I dont find my brew days getting shorter, but I do find that dont have to babysit the brew as much as before.

 

[Sammy86]

Personally, I just purchased a Brewzilla 65L...I wanted to go electric without really breaking the bank.

My initial and tried and true set up is similar to yours and after really sitting down and thinking about the smaller footprint, moving out of the kitchen and the ability to brew bigger batches really sold me.

Yes, it's awesome to have a 3 vessel e-herms but is it really necessary? Is it going to help you brew better beer?

 

[Jag75]

I have the Gf and love it. No regrets

 

[kh54s10]

I was looking to go electric. I looked at all the single vessel options as well as making an upgrade to my 3 tier propane system. I priced some of the parts needed and quickly gave up on that idea as it quickly surpassed the price of the Grainfather and most of the others.

I then looked at the single vessel systems and found the Unibrau. It is not as fancy as the Grainfather but it also doesn't have all the proprietary parts. What I shied away from is the heating element sealed in the bottom of most of them. The element is going to go bad at some point, then you have a heap of scrap metal. With the Unibrau if a part goes bad you can just replace that part. For an element, you buy a new element, pull the failed one and insert the new one, tighten the tri-clover and start brewing.

Now if the delivery service would get it here quickly!!!!!

 

[Justintoxicated]

Well the 3 vessel wouldn't really take up anymore space since that is what I have now. The grainfather G30 requires using extract to make a big beer and I have been making RIS, belgian quads and Barleywines lately, but I am unsure if the G70 will be able to do high abv 5 gallon batches or not since it is not released.

I like the points about changing parts, that to me is part of the beauty of the 3 vessel, it can be revised and upgraded over time. I could pretty much change out any component, (for now I would only be using electric for the herms, and propane for the boil) and also use it (without the 240v herms) as a portable system. G30 is the best for portability though I think.

Unless I sell my existing stuff the G70 would actually take up more space since I will still need something to portable to brew on for club brew days etc.

Other things with the 3 vessel is that I can do an actual whirlpool, and sarge properly (fly sparge vs rinsing a raised grain bed), and on occasion double batch (start mashing another beer while one is brewing).

My understanding is that the Unibrau is better system than the grainfather but also way more expensive than building out a herms for my system.

I do have a 20% off coupon for the G70 I picked up at GABF, if I decide to go that route instead. Right now I'm leaning towards the 3 vessel though since many of the best brewers I know use that type of system (but some do have grainfathers too). But is the grainfather really all in one if you have to have a seperate pot to heat up sparge water anyways?

Here are some links to what I am considering:
Grainfather G70:
https://grainfather.com/grainfather-g70/

Heating Element:
https://shop.theelectricbrewery.com...lement-assembly-diy-kit?variant=7782337052700

Herms Coil and fittings:
http://stainlessbrewing.3dcartstore...s-25-x-12-x-035-OD-Tubing-304304L-_p_256.html

Controller:
The expensive part of the herms for me would be this unit:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KP6DAXS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?smid=A2PUDKB6S5DQAJ&psc=1

 

[Jag75]

Has there been a price for the 70 listed anywhere? I have the smaller one . A buddy came over to help brew and he wants the 70. It's odd that they claim you can get a 7.5% beer out of it but I've hit 8.1 on my Gf without using extract.

 

[Wayne1]

Has there been a price for the 70 listed anywhere? I have the smaller one . A buddy came over to help brew and he wants the 70. It's odd that they claim you can get a 7.5% beer out of it but I've hit 8.1 on my Gf without using extract.

$1800.00

 

[Jag75]

Yowwza ! 1800 bucks

 

[day_trippr]

For a fancy coffee urn?

 

[ten80]

For a fancy coffee urn?

At a first glance, I'd agree. An underpowered coffee urn, still with a small, weak, cheap pump and not even using 1/2" diameter pipe for the recirculation arm? Not a very convincing argument to spend $1800 when Spike, Blichmann, and many others have better options for 240V electric systems that are arguably more "heavy duty" and have fewer proprietary parts, plus they can use industry standard triclover or camlock fittings.

 

[Justintoxicated]

At a first glance, I'd agree. An underpowered coffee urn, still with a small, weak, cheap pump and not even using 1/2" diameter pipe for the recirculation arm? Not a very convincing argument to spend $1800 when Spike, Blichmann, and many others have better options for 240V electric systems that are arguably more "heavy duty" and have fewer proprietary parts, plus they can use industry standard triclover or camlock fittings.

G70 is 240v..!?

Which spike system should I look at instead? Their 10 gallon system (5-6 gallon batch) system is $6000. Yes its a better system, and less custom parts, but I could buy 3 G70's for that price.

 

[kh54s10]

G70 is 240v..!?

Which spike system should I look at instead? Their 10 gallon system (5-6 gallon batch) system is $6000. Yes its a better system, and less custom parts, but I could buy 3 G70's for that price.

Look at the Unibrau. It doesn't require any proprietary parts and can be had for a lot less than the G70 I didn't buy all the accessories and got mine for just over $1000.

 

[Sean Monaghan]

Hey. might want to hold on to your wallet as it looks Spike will be coming out with their eBIAB rig soon. On their Insta they dropped word they'll offer a 10g, 15g, and 20g vessel. ETA on the 20g is Spring.

 

[Venger]

I used a 3 vessel HERMS system for a few years before switching to a GF 30 Connect a couple of years ago. I know I'm in the minority here, but I've been mostly dissatisfied with the GF. I find the gaskets on the grain screens to be difficult to keep in place, the boil is weak, and I'm constantly having flow issues with the pump (even after removing the spring and ball on the valve). You can take the pump apart to clean it but it's not a fun process and frankly shouldn't be necessary. I'm going back to a 3 vessel system as it's just way more robust and flexible. Again, I'm in the minority so this might all be unique to me, but I wanted to share my experience as you consider your options. Whatever you end up with, happy brewing!

 

[Justintoxicated]

Look at the Unibrau. It doesn't require any proprietary parts and can be had for a lot less than the G70 I didn't buy all the accessories and got mine for just over $1000.

I'm back to looking, the G70 is on sale and I believe it solves allot of the problems mentioned in the post above. However I still don't know if you can do 5.5-6 gallon batches on it.

I'm also considering the Unibrau, but I have no idea what heating elements and controller to get if I were to go with that unit. I configured it with everyting and it's expensive but thats not the biggest concern. I do like the idea of the bluetooth controller on the GF, but I could do without it as well.

Spike system isn't available yet still.

 

[madscientist451]

Have you considered adding an element, controller and grain basket to your existing SS Brewtech pot instead of the HERMS?
If you wanted to eventually go with a full 3 vessel system you'd have that option, but with the G/F, you wouldn't.

Here's some controllers that may work for you:
https://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/Electric-Brewery-Controllers-c272.htm

 

[Justintoxicated]

Have you considered adding an element, controller and grain basket to your existing SS Brewtech pot instead of the HERMS?
If you wanted to eventually go with a full 3 vessel system you'd have that option, but with the G/F, you wouldn't.

Here's some controllers that may work for you:
https://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/Electric-Brewery-Controllers-c272.htm

If I was going to that I'd just punch some holes in my HLT and make it into an e-herms, seems better and not anymore expensive than punching a large hole into my brew kettle and adding a basket. But I could do that later if I wanted to go full electric. What I really need is just a nice temperature controlled RIM/HERMS for mashing. I guess the grainfather and unibrau could both be used as a regulated mashtun only? I'm actually becoming more concerned with temp overshoot and scorching when your getting up to 5500w heating elements in these kinds of systems, less so on the grainfather style heating than with the element directly in the tank like the unibrau?

My understanding in a rims setup is that the heating is generally done in a small container so you get good flow and avoid scorching the wort. Grainfather avoids this by having a weak heating element, but just using a larger heating element (and larger pump) may not be enough to solve this issue? Proper solution for fast heating without scortching would be a herms, which goes back to modifying my current system?!

However I still say the automation and improvements on the G70 look pretty good (at 20% off). Sure maybe it won't last forever, but I'm ok with that. It has a stronger pump and re-designed conical bottom 240v heating element. I just want to confirm that I would be able to do 5.5-6 gallon batches at some point (nothing wrong with 10's except that means more storage is required and I like variety!).

But maybe the unibrau with a medium heating element would make more sense? I dunno, with their controllers you seem to either get a more accurate controller or a pid but not both. I like that it is modular, but I feel like your paying allot more for less actual design, and it is looks like a bit more work to setup?