Funked Saison

[mhenry41h]

Ok, I have finally settled on my recipe for a Brett Saison:

Draconian Libations': Saison Sauvages

Volume 5.5 Gallons
Efficiency 68%
OG 1.053
FG 1.005
SRM 5.41
ABV 6.15

Belgian Pilsner 6 lbs, 5.92 oz
Weyermann Vienna 2 lbs, 14.4 oz
Weyermann Dark Wheat 1 lbs, 2.56 oz
Simpsons Golden Naked Oats 0 lbs, 9.28 oz
Corn Sugar 0 lbs, 9.28 oz

Saaz, US Pellets 1 oz @ 90 mins
Citra Pellets .5 oz @ 15 mins
Citra Pellets 1 oz @ 0 mins

Wyeast Labs Brettanomyces bruxellensis
Wyeast Labs Belgian Saison

147 Degree Mash for 90 Minutes
90 Minute Boil


Im highly looking forward to making this beer.

 

[LowerMillHillBackyardBrew]

I started liking sour/funky beers just recently, and this looks very interesting! Let us know how it turns out

 

[Strave19]

I would drop the vienna to 2lbs 14.1oz, other than that it looks great

Just curious... why both the Belgian and French saison yeasts?

 

[jbrookeiv]

I would drop the vienna to 2lbs 14.1oz, other than that it looks great

Just curious... why both the Belgian and French saison yeasts?

Same question. This is WAY too much yeast for that size batch. The 3711 could cut through that beer by itself in a few days.

 

[Strave19]

Yeah, I think that using the 3724 and the brett would be a better combo because it is known to be a slow finisher anyway. From what I've heard about 3711, it will probably do over 90% of the work before the others get to it... But hey, its YOUR beer and you can do whatever you please!

Split the batch and do 3711/brett in one and 3724/brett in the other!

 

[mhenry41h]

For the yeast, two things came to mind. I used Jamil's yeast calculator for using no starter? Why? Because I just wanted to experiment without using one to see what happens. It estimated that I'd need a little over 2 packs of yeast for the proper pitch rate. I was told that the Brett packs tend to have smaller amounts than the regular saccro. smack packs. The other thought behind it was simply commercial brewery pitching rates. Ommegang, one of my favorites, is rumored to use a monster pitching rate. Thus, I came up with the idea of a no starter-overpitching experement. Also, lol, pay little attention to the goofy measurements. My Beersmith is acting up and wont let me save changes to recipes so I transferred it to BrewMasters Warehouse Recipe Builder. Of course, Beersmith would give you measurments in lbs while Brewmasters Warehouse gives the measurements in Lbs plus Oz.s. 5.45 lbs = 5 Lbs 7.20 Ozs...

 

[jtakacs]

i think you just inspired me to do a low gravity all brett black saison... little carafa III, low OG and blamo, nifty summer dark beer with some brett overtones...

on topic, i never liked the results of over pitching without starters - i did that on my tripel with trappist yeast and it's taking forever to develop into a beer i reach for. hardly empirical, but it seems to lead to SUBSTANTIAL yeast profile... i've never tasted a more yeasty beer than when i've over pitched. of course, ymmv.

 

[runs4beer]

From what I've heard about 3711, it will probably do over 90% of the work before the others get to it..

I can back this up, 3711 is a beast. Two weeks ago I pitched at 64° let it free rise to 74° after 4 days it was at 1.004 ( from1.054) at 6 days it hit 1.000 where it stayed.
+1 split and blent the batch.

 

[smokinghole]

As said 3711 will demolish all sugars in your wort not leaving brett anything to do. On option for you is to bottle in some champagne bottles and bottle with malto dextrine. I know it sounds silly but I've been experimenting with brett at bottling and priming with MD. It worked great with JP microbes.

My vote is for all brett (I have one in the plans, well brett and bacteria), or the 3724 and brett. I like the 3711 on its own though I just don't think it'd allow much brett influence with out having wood sugars to chew on if barrel aged or something.

 

[mhenry41h]

Thanks for all of the good ideas. 100 pct Brett was my original idea but is it really a saison without the traditional yeast character? I considered using grains of paradise and orange peel to compensate for the lack of esters and phenols and then went to this idea. After reading your thoughts, I think I may skip the French yeast and just go with a Belgian Saison/Brett combo. If the Belgian Saison does its normal thing and slows up around 1.030, the Brett should be able to work. Thanks again!

 

[ellijo89]

The naked oats will be interesting in it. I just used it in a light pale and it has a strong berry taste to it which i didn't expect to stand out so much. I wonder if it will take a back seat in this recipe to the saison yeast and brett. But looks good!

 

[mhenry41h]

The naked oats will be interesting in it. I just used it in a light pale and it has a strong berry taste to it which i didn't expect to stand out so much. I wonder if it will take a back seat in this recipe to the saison yeast and brett. But looks good!

GNO is such a cool thing isn't it? My main stay recipe is an IPA using 2-Row, Pilsner, Munich, Victory, and GNO. It sounds malty. But I hop it hard with Amarillo and Citra and it is so good. I love the head retention qualities and the mouthfeel qualities it adds. I actually may use GNO in most recipes I write from now on.

 

[ellijo89]

GNO is such a cool thing isn't it? My main stay recipe is an IPA using 2-Row, Pilsner, Munich, Victory, and GNO. It sounds malty. But I hop it hard with Amarillo and Citra and it is so good. I love the head retention qualities and the mouthfeel qualities it adds. I actually may use GNO in most recipes I write from now on.

Yeah I hear ya. I bought a few pounds originally for an oatmeal stout, but started using them on lighter brews as well lately. Might have to take your advise and try an ipa next. Thanks for the advice, and ill not through this thread anymore off topic haha.

 

[mhenry41h]

Actually, I gave it one last tweaking...

Draconian Libations': Saison Sauvages

Volume 5.5 Gallons
Efficiency 68%
OG 1.055
FG 1.005
SRM 6.10
ABV 6.15

Belgian Pilsner 6 lbs, 8.8 oz
Weyermann Vienna 1 lbs, 3.04 oz
Weyermann Munich Type II 1 lbs, 3.04 Oz
Weyermann Dark Wheat 1 lbs, 3.04 oz
Corn Sugar 1 lbs, 3.04 oz
Simpsons Golden Naked Oats 0 lbs, 9.60 oz

Saaz, US Pellets 1 oz @ 90 mins
Citra Pellets .7 oz @ 15 mins
Citra Pellets 1 oz @ 0 mins

Wyeast Labs Brettanomyces bruxellensis
Wyeast Labs Belgian Saison

147 Degree Mash for 90 Minutes
90 Minute Boil

 

[mhenry41h]

Update: I've yet to brew a beer with a gravity sample that I wanted to drink until now. The Citra combined with the 3724 spices and fruitiness is a WONDERFUL combo! Its seriously good. Of course, the finicky nature of 3724 only has it down to 1.033 in 19 days, but DAMN. The Brett isn't coming through yet either. I am thinking this will easily be my best ever beer when it's done...uber fruity, a tad bitter, and nice peppery phenolics!

OG was 1.066. I fly sparged for the first time and missed high (1.060 target) it'll be bigger than I planned.

 

[smokinghole]

We'll have to swap batches of brett'd saisons. I have 8ish gallons of a rye saison with east coast brett saison blend. Last I checked it was at 1.010 after two weeks. I bet that in a week or two I will be throwing this into bottles.

 

[mhenry41h]

We'll have to swap batches of brett'd saisons. I have 8ish gallons of a rye saison with east coast brett saison blend. Last I checked it was at 1.010 after two weeks. I bet that in a week or two I will be throwing this into bottles.

Hell yeah. God knows how long it will take for Brett B and 3724 to get this thing under 1.010?! I know 3724 is worth the wait but geez is it slow.

 

[mhenry41h]

Just a quick update for those interested in this recipe: today has been 4 weeks since it was brewed and the gravity is down around 1.012. 3724 is a real bastard to work with but if the hydro samples tell me anything, it's that 3724 is worth waiting on. Don't pitch champagne yeast and don't pitch 3711, just plan on a 5-6 week fermentation and wait! I have this beer at just over 90 degrees and yesterday I noticed the yeast starting to flocculate out. It has the lovely esters and pepper phenolics of 3724 which seem to meld all too perfectly with Citra hops. To boot, there is a real nice tang in there with the aspiriny smell and funky light Brett B character. I cannot wait until some of these bottles are 6 months to a year old. I'm going to bottle a case of 12 oz'ers but I'm also going to bottle 12 22oz bombers to age. This is undoubtedly my best creation to date. If somebody is interested in the details on this recipe pm me. I feel confident you won't be disappointed.

 

[mhenry41h]

All signs of fermentation ceased this am (5.5 weeks.) thus, I took a gravity sample and found the final gravity at 1.003. Looks like bottling will commence this weekend. It's not funny how good the sample tastes. I could nearly drink it flat and warm. Somebody brew this and compareyour results with me! lol

 

[louie0202]

mhenry when you did this, I assume you pitched the Brett and Saison at the same time? I will have to try this in the summer when its easier to keep one of the rooms at 80 ish

 

[mhenry41h]

mhenry when you did this, I assume you pitched the Brett and Saison at the same time? I will have to try this in the summer when its easier to keep one of the rooms at 80 ish

Yes, I definitely did this in the summer. The Dupont strain is a nightmare unless you get it warm enough. I made a 1500 ml starter on a stirplate in which I pitched both vials. It took off very quickly but looked as though it completely done at 3 days (which I was certain it wasn't.) At that point I took it upstairs in the attic with an ambient temp in the low 80's. It took 6 weeks to ferment out and clear with an FG around 1.002. The Brett aromas and flavors appeared around the 1 month mark. Its a delicious beer. This recipe scored a 42 at a BJCP recognized Belgian Competition. The only thing that I got pinged on was the lack of spicy character. When I rebrew this beer, I plan on two batches (1 with Brett L and 1 with Brett B) and I plan to use some grains of paradise. The Brett, Dupont, and Citra are quite fruity.