Frustrated with all grain...going back to extract

[Bobby_M]

Bobby, what kinda MLT are you using?

Started with a 48qt rectangular cooler with braid and now use a sanke with a full false bottom. My average efficiency dropped from about 90% to 86% since I have to run a slightly thinner mash to make up for the space below the false bottom. This means less sparge volume. In any case, I can't imagine how many things I'd have to change in my process to get 65%. Maybe coarser crush, cooler sparge, single batch sparge... that sort of thing.

 

[mmb]

I completely relate with the OP. My first AG was 64-65%, and I am worried my next brew will yield around the same. I have a list of things that I am going to do different this next time...
1) Finer crush
2) Use 5.2,
3) Pour the grain into my mash tun a little at a time, while stirring to avoid doughballs,
4) Mash for longer than 60 mins (does this risk astringency?)
5) Boil more vigorously.

If I don't get a least 70% with these additions, ..... well, I'll be pissed.

I would start with a finer crush first and keep everything else the same. How will you know what works if you change your whole process in one go?

 

[bob1852]

Started with a 48qt rectangular cooler with braid

what efficiency were you getting with the braid? I'm running a short single braid and was maybe thinking a looped braid might add some efficiency?

 

[Bobby_M]

I was getting in the low 90's with the braid. Denny Conn, the godfather of braid batch sparging played around with braid length and no, there was difference. There's no risk of sparge channeling with batch sparging so it's just holding back the grain as the wort flows out. It's a completely different concept than fly sparging.

 

[Tankard]

I would start with a finer crush first and keep everything else the same. How will you know what works if you change your whole process in one go?

Well, the things I'm planning on doing are things I should have done my first time around anyway. It won't hurt anything if I put a scoop of 5.2 in the mash, I really should have stirred the grains better in the mash tun, etc. I'm just correcting the problems I had my first time around.

 

[springer]

my efficiency was crappy the first few batches . If you want to laugh read
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/my-wonderful-sunday-brew-day-71049/

now my last batch a Saison I hit 82% and all I did was raise my batch sparge water to 185*

If the beer taste's good and you like it what is the problem? As you get some more experience I'm sure the #'s will go up. And keep some DME on hand in case you feel the need to bump up the OG

 

[MashStirBrew]

My first batches were very low efficiency! No crusher and was using 170F water for batch sparging. Now I crush my own and raised my sparge temps to 185 and my last brew https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/cream-three-crops-cream-ale-66503/ I hit 90% or better.

There is nothing wrong with extract, but if I can hit 90% on a batch there is NO reason you can't.

 

[Homercidal]

If you are not going to brew AG, then can you please send me your equipment? PM me...








j/k Keep with it. If you are making great beer, then you are doing good. Just tweak the process until you get the efficiency up and then you are saving money too. A bonus.

 

[elderbrewer]

I too became frustrated w/ all grain and almost gave up. The first thing I did was analyze why I brew in the first place, besides having good beer on hand and saving some money, I really enjoy the process, I like to make beer, its a hobby. All grain gives me the opportunity to play with the process.
I had dismal efficiency,but found help on the forums. First I crushed the grain till their was a lot of flour, kept strike water to temps according to recipe, added PH 5.2. I then insulated the mash tun with a sleeping bag. I batch sparge so I stir well between runoffs. I now get 70 -72 %. My last beer was a clone of Rogues Brutal Bitter and it was right on. I always keep some dry malt extrac on hand just in case. 1lb will raise the OG 1 point =. If you love brewing don't give up all grain the rewards are worth it. don's be as concerned about numbers (they are guidelines) as you are about the way your beer tastes.

 

[Saccharomyces]

I was listening to The Jamil Show and it sounds like JZ is no great fan of high efficiencies. I think he mentioned he comes in around 65%, believing that aiming too high is begging for extracting assorted nasties (husk tannins, etc).

I believe he is quoting 70% brewhouse efficiency. Since he does 6 gallon batches and ends up with 5 gallons, losing a gallon in the process to trub, this would put his mash and lauter efficiency around 85%. 85% is close to the theoretical max efficiency for a double batch sparge running off 1 gallon for boiloff, again what his recipes instruct (7 gal pre-boil, 6 after boil). Over 90% mash/lauter efficiency you have to be careful of the pH of your last runnings, pH over 6 can extract tannins. At 85% or lower your last runnings are over 1.010 unless you have mash problems, in which case you probably have other symptoms like chill haze.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

For the OP: I have paid a lot of attention to Efficiency since I started AG, but by no way is it the primary issue.
I enjoy the process of AG, and I love the taste. The fact that I may really miss the targets, I adjust up the recipe or fix with adding DME / Honey depending on what I'm going for. The fact that I sweat like a horse, stink like a pig and am totally exhausted just shows how much I enjoy it.
Efficiency just gives you an idea of where you are in your process and equipment, and gives you a guide to adjust your recipe. If you want to stop all grain for any reason it is fine, but I would hope that EFF should be last.
Best of luck.

 

[JamesKY]

As I stated in an earlier post, my friend and I have generally hovered around the 60-65% efficiency range ever since we started brewing AG. This happened even when we crushed the grains with our own Barley Crusher set to a very fine crush. Up until last night, I had always used a SS braid to drain my MLT. Last weekend I decided to make a manifold out of CPVC and last night we used it for the first time.

I'm happy to report that our efficiency jumped to 83%. When I went through some "dry" runs with the MLT filling it with hot water and letting it drain, I found that the SS braid was leaving about a quart or so of liquid behind before it finished draining. The manifold now drains the MLT almost completely. Granted there wasn't any grain to absorb the water, but it still stands to reason that this would have a detrimental effect on our efficiency.

So it will take some more experimentation to tell whether or not this was just a fluke, but I wanted to say that if you're frustrated with low efficiencies, don't ignore a seemingly small problem as it could turn out to be a bigger one than you thought.