Frustrated on my beer...

[Brak23]

So for the third brew in a row, something has gone wrong... WHich will set the tally at 3 failed beers and 1 successful beer since starting this journey.

I am making a Bourbon Vanilla Bean Imperial Porter.

Suggested starting gravity 1.079 and ending gravity of 1.017

Recipe is:

7.2 lb. Amber extract
2.1 lb. - Munich Malt (15 L)
1.2 lb. - Brown Malt
1 lb. - Crystal Malt (120L)
1/2 lb. - Crystal Malt (40L)
1.25 lb. - Chocolate Malt

Extras :
Kentucky Bourbon (Jim Beam, Knob Creek, etc.)
Real, Whole Vanilla Beans (Extract just won't do)
Oak Chips or Cubes
Hop Schedule (37 IBU)

1 oz - Magnum Hops (60 min)
1/2 oz - E.K. Goldings (10 min)
Yeast

White Labs California Ale Yeast (WLP001) - 1800 ml starter

Steeped the grains for 30 minutes at 150-160 for 30 minutes, transferred to wort. Boiled for 60 minutes (approx. 2.5-3.0 gal). Cooled, Added water to make 5 gal.

Starting gravity on my reading is 1.050 and the color looks WAY off. Its like 13 degrees lovibond. Which is light a light brown color.

I did everything right, followed everything correctly. But the gravity and color is way off and confusing me.

It is now Tuesday and I made the brew Saturday. So its been 3 days and its already down to 1.020 (so I have good yeast). But its super light brown and im scared its ruined.

What could I have possibly done wrong this time? It was a crap ton of grains, I worried that I had too much.

Just getting really frustrated, because I feel like I do everything correctly and the beers just keep turning out crappy. The last one didn't ferment at all and I was left with a very terrible tasting beer.

Whats wrong with my beer?

 

[MalFet]

Whoa...where'd you get at recipe? You really can't steep grains in that kind of quantity.

 

[Brak23]

Whoa...where'd you get at recipe? You really can't steep grains in that kind of quantity.

I asked my local brew shop and I asked advice on here and that was not a concern to anyone.

 

[edb23]

lotsss of stuff to steep

 

[tagz]

I think a lot of new brewers try things like a Bourbon Vanilla Bean Imperial Porter too early. I know its exciting that you can brew anything you want, but the first handful of beers is about process, not making that craft beer you love. I would try a standard brown ale or a pale ale just to work on fermentation temps, yeast health, etc.

 

[Brak23]

I think a lot of new brewers try things like a Bourbon Vanilla Bean Imperial Porter too early. I know its exciting that you can brew anything you want, but the first handful of beers is about process, not making that craft beer you love. I would try a standard brown ale or a pale ale just to work on fermentation temps, yeast health, etc.

Well my first beer was a Taddy Porter, turned out perfect. Second was a Irish Red (that i accidentally over hopped, turned into an Irish IPA haha).

So far this beer is "technically" an Imperial Porter since i haven't added Bourbon or Vanilla yet.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Steeping that much grain for 30 minutes is like doing a mini-mash.

What you're showing would work... however, you'll want to keep a constant temperature, stir very often and also have a proper water to grain ratio (qt/lb) that will allow mash enymes to disperse and work properly.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

So far this beer is "technically" an Imperial Porter since i haven't added Bourbon or Vanilla yet.

Unless you're shipping your porter from England to the Russian house of royalty then it's only "technically" imperial. The term is now simply a marketing gimick to mean "stronger/bolder than the typical style." Imperial is also synonymous with "double" (but not dubble) and "extra" (but not like in ESB.)

It has nothing to do with vanilla or bourbon.

 

[MalFet]

I asked my local brew shop and I asked advice on here and that was not a concern to anyone.

The recipe people here were recommending had a 12 pounds of DME and no steeping Munich. You might have to chalk this one up to a learning experience. Your OG and color are about what I would expect.

Steeping that much grain for 30 minutes is like doing a mini-mash.

What you're showing would work... however, you'll want to keep a constant temperature, stir very often and also have a proper water to grain ratio (qt/lb) that will allow mash enymes to disperse and work properly.

That's a lot of conversion for not a lot of diastatic power, though.

 

[edecambra]

Hello, I know what you mean when you say you are frustrated. When I started, I had three batches in a row with attenuation issues and it was really getting me down.

Your main focus should be on your process. First off the grains you used cannot just be steeped but must be mashed outright. You could try a partial mash where you actually mash those grains for about an hour at 150 or so. I don't know about the diastatic power (enzymatic ability in the grains to convert starch to sugar) but you may have to add an extra lb or two of 6-row malt and cut back on the extract a bit, perhaps someone else could chime in on this fact.

Also, if you just steeped those grains you probably lots of unconverted starch and protein in the beer, which may contribute to an abnormally high final gravity (the yeast can't eat those starches)

I don't know your prior recipes, but I would like to suggest that you try simple recipes. This was my biggest problem beginning, I wanted to approach brewing like cooking (which I enjoy and follow the throw it in to taste method) which couldn't be worse for my beers! I wanted to over complicate the beers.

With brewing the recipe is probably one of the last keys to making a great beer, where process (fermentation, brewing, conditioning, etc.) is vastly more important. If you really want to improve your brewing I would suggest getting a copy of brewing classic styles (jamil's book) and go through some of those recipes. This will give you time to use tried and true recipes while really figuring out how your brewing process is contributing to your final beers.

Don't be discouraged by these few brews, in a years time if you keep at it you will be very impressed with your progress

 

[edecambra]

Ha! At least you don't have a loss of advice, 8 responses before I could post my mini book!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

That's a lot of conversion for not a lot of diastatic power, though.

Meh, it's not impossible... it's probability is in question, though

 

[Zamial]

So for the third brew in a row, something has gone wrong... Which will set the tally at 3 failed beers and 1 successful beer since starting this journey.

That sux but I bet we can help on the next batch.

I am making a Bourbon Vanilla Bean Imperial Porter. Suggested starting gravity 1.079 and ending gravity of 1.017

aaaaand let’s talk a little here… That is way, WAY to big a beer for the average you are running. You need to make a great porter before messing with burbon, oaked, high gravity, vanilla thing. Stop wasting your money and frustration on some “massive monster”. You had the same chance of walking on the moon as you do of getting that right…

Recipe is:

way to complicated and not right. Not even close.

Steeped the grains for 30 minutes at 150-160 for 30 minutes, transferred to wort. Boiled for 60 minutes (approx. 2.5-3.0 gal). Cooled, Added water to make 5 gal.

That is not a mash nor is that a steeping. What this sounds like to me is you got a partial mash kit and tried to make it like you were steeping a grain sack for an extract kit. Which is not right. Please read: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/

I did everything right, followed everything correctly. But the gravity and color is way off and confusing me.

You did what right?

It is now Tuesday and I made the brew Saturday. So its been 3 days and its already down to 1.020 (so I have good yeast). But its super light brown and im scared its ruined.

I won’t say it is ruined but it probably is not going to taste like what you think it should.

What could I have possibly done wrong this time? It was a crap ton of grains, I worried that I had too much.

More grains does not = good beer.

Just getting really frustrated, because I feel like I do everything correctly and the beers just keep turning out crappy. The last one didn't ferment at all and I was left with a very terrible tasting beer.

Then end the madness now and read the stickies in the beginners section. Figure out what equipment you have and brew up a batch of something that actually has a chance of turning out right. Most people start out with extract kits until they make a few good batches then move into a partial mash and finally to all grain. Now some folks think they can jump a few pegs and some make it and some, like yourself, did not. My best suggestion is to order up an extract kit for something super simple. I suggest a wheat beer, a stout or an IPA. ABV under 6%. Also, use filtered water or bottled (not RO or distilled!!!), with 1 camden tablet per 10 gallons of water. Start slow and simple, make good beer, then improve/advance your process. Do not give up you can do this but you bit off more than you could chew…

 

[Brak23]

Steeping that much grain for 30 minutes is like doing a mini-mash.

What you're showing would work... however, you'll want to keep a constant temperature, stir very often and also have a proper water to grain ratio (qt/lb) that will allow mash enymes to disperse and work properly.

I had it pretty much at a spot on temp the entire time, it fluctuated just a little bit. But I probably didn't stir it enough and I had about 1 - 1.5 gal water to that much grain.

When I had all that grain in the bag I guess it didn't occur to me that it could be problematic as I have never had my steeping be an issue with previous beers.

Unless you're shipping your porter from England to the Russian house of royalty then it's only "technically" imperial. The term is now simply a marketing gimick to mean "stronger/bolder than the typical style." Imperial is also synonymous with "double" (but not dubble) and "extra" (but not like in ESB.)

I guess I haven't been around beer a super long time, I have just always made the assumption that while it was historically named for beer that was shipped from england to russian royalty, that it was just a term used to be synonymous with double and didn't matter if I called it Imperial or Double.

It has nothing to do with vanilla or bourbon.

Yes, I know that.




I'll just let it sit and see how it tastes. Worst case is that i throw it out. Im guessing its going to be a lighter beer. Since its day three and already at 1.020 and still fermenting strong.

Live and Learn, and lose $50 haha.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I had it pretty much at a spot on temp the entire time, it fluctuated just a little bit. But I probably didn't stir it enough and I had about 1 - 1.5 gal water to that much grain.

GOO!!!!! Yeah, at ~7# of grain that makes it 0.57 - 0.85 qt/lb. Definitely not enough water... and just too much grain if you're not intending to do a mini-mash.

I guess I haven't been around beer a super long time, I have just always made the assumption that while it was historically named for beer that was shipped from england to russian royalty, that it was just a term used to be synonymous with double and didn't matter if I called it Imperial or Double.
.
.
.
Yes, I know that.

Okay okay, it just seemed like in your post you were implying that the imperial banks on the bourbon or vanilla. And way to copy exactly what I said

I'll just let it sit and see how it tastes. Worst case is that i throw it out. Im guessing its going to be a lighter beer. Since its day three and already at 1.020 and still fermenting strong.

Live and Learn, and lose $50 haha.

You should never dump a beer. There are so many stories of people who just left them alone or forgot about them for a couple years and they came back to heaven-in-a-glass. But then again, you haven't even tried it yet so it could still be amazing.

 

[jfr1111]

You need to discover the wonderul world of bitters and fast. A most delicious bitter could be made from a 1,7kg can of pale extract, 400g of sugar and 200-300g of crystal, steeped, with 25-30 ibus of english hops. This would allow you to concentrate on process and technique, rather than fret about wether or not your very complex beer will turn out at least decent. Brewing the same recipe again and again might be boring, but it helps you focus on getting consistent results.

It was pointed out that the temptation to brew big bad beers is strong from the get go, but losing 50$ on a bad batch of beer is pretty big imho. Sure I brew session all grain beers, but my usual per cost batch hovers around 10-15 $ when using dry yeast.

 

[Brak23]

That sux but I bet we can help on the next batch.

I hope so. I guess my fallback with learning this process is that I have two different brew shops I go to, and the advice I get on here. Not only do people have differing opinions on here, but the brewshops both have their own opinions. And they all say the other isn't right. I know brewing isn't a science and i understand that. But I just sometimes feel like I learn it one way from one person only to have someone else tell me im doing it completely wrong and to change it.

aaaaand let’s talk a little here… That is way, WAY to big a beer for the average you are running. You need to make a great porter before messing with burbon, oaked, high gravity, vanilla thing. Stop wasting your money and frustration on some “massive monster”. You had the same chance of walking on the moon as you do of getting that right…

I made a great Taddy Porter for my first batch, everyone who sampled it really was impressed at how good it was. So I guess I didn't think doing an imperial was going to be THAT much more challenging. But thats on me for not doing enough research ahead of time.

way to complicated and not right. Not even close.

This is my first point. You say not right, too complicated and not close. But the thread where I asked someone to help me convert the recipe, plus the local homebrew shop said it was a good looking beer. Which opinion is the right now?

That is not a mash nor is that a steeping. What this sounds like to me is you got a partial mash kit and tried to make it like you were steeping a grain sack for an extract kit. Which is not right. Please read: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/

So whats the difference in quantity of ingredients between a partial mash kit and extract kit (with grain sack). Ive always been confused on what the true difference is, I always thought it was just the process that made them differ.

More grains does not = good beer.

I acknowledge that and didn't mean to imply that is my way of thinking. My point was I figured with the amount of grains I had, the color and gravity would be darker and higher. But if my process with those grains is wrong, its wrong. But in no way was I implying that i thought more grains make better beer.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

You need to discover the wonderul world of bitters and fast. A most delicious bitter could be made from a 1,7kg can of pale extract, 400g of sugar and 200-300g of crystal, steeped, with 25-30 ibus of english hops. This would allow you to concentrate on process and technique, rather than fret about wether or not your very complex beer will turn out at least decent. Brewing the same recipe again and again might be boring, but it helps you focus on getting consistent results.

It was pointed out that the temptation to brew big bad beers is strong from the get go, but losing 50$ on a bad batch of beer is pretty big imho. Sure I brew session all grain beers, but my usual per cost batch hovers around 10-15 $ when using dry yeast.

+10000 for simple session beers :rockin:

 

[Reno_eNVy]

I know brewing isn't a science...

Um.... yes it is

 

[Brak23]

And way to copy exactly what I said

haha, I knew the history and I didn't realize that you also wrote synonymous as well.

 

[Brak23]

Um.... yes it is

TYPO: EXACT science is what I meant.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

So whats the difference in quantity of ingredients between a partial mash kit and extract kit (with grain sack). Ive always been confused on what the true difference is, I always thought it was just the process that made them differ.

In order to do a mash properly you need a proper water to grain ratio and you need an adequate amount of base malt, or malts with a lot of mash enzymes.

 

[Brak23]

In order to do a mash properly you need a proper water to grain ratio and you need an adequate amount of base malt, or malts with a lot of mash enzymes.

If you could help clarify my confusion really quick:
http://brewwiki.com/index.php/Extract_Brewing

Thats the process I did. I steeped the 7 pounds of specialty malts (they are specialty right?). Added the extract, etc.

So my confusion is this: In looking at this recipe, and any recipe that contains extract for that matter, how do I know whether its a simple extract brew or whether I need to do a partial mash to get good results?

I know that Partial Mash requires more of a process, but from what I understand from this thread is that the recipe I had shouldn't be done with an extract brewing process and should be done with a partial mash process. So how do I know when looking at a recipe with extract if I should follow extract brewing processes or doing a partial mash?

 

[MalFet]

If you could help clarify my confusion really quick:
http://brewwiki.com/index.php/Extract_Brewing

Thats the process I did. I steeped the 7 pounds of specialty malts (they are specialty right?). Added the extract, etc.

So my confusion is this: In looking at this recipe, and any recipe that contains extract for that matter, how do I know whether its a simple extract brew or whether I need to do a partial mash to get good results?

I know that Partial Mash requires more of a process, but from what I understand from this thread is that the recipe I had shouldn't be done with an extract brewing process and should be done with a partial mash process. So how do I know when looking at a recipe with extract if I should follow extract brewing processes or doing a partial mash?

Think of specialty malt steeping as adding spices to a meal. Right now, you've got way, way too much specialty malt. Your specialty malts won't contribute much to your gravity, and in these quantities you won't even produce normal color or flavor.

 

[Brak23]

Think of specialty malt steeping as adding spices to a meal. Right now, you've got way, way too much specialty malt. Your specialty malts won't contribute much to your gravity, and in these quantities you won't even produce normal color or flavor.

So in the future, how do I know if its way to much specialty malts?

 

[MalFet]

So in the future, how do I know if its way to much specialty malts?

Honestly, at this point in your brewing career, use a trusted recipe. Few recipes will steep more than a pound or two.

 

[Brak23]

Honestly, at this point in your brewing career, use a trusted recipe. Few recipes will steep more than a pound or two.

Awesome. Thanks!

Also, where do you recommend finding "trusted" recipes?
I do have a recipe book, I might try those out.

 

[MalFet]

Awesome. Thanks!

Also, where do you recommend finding "trusted" recipes?
I do have a recipe book, I might try those out.

Buy a kit from a brewshop (though maybe not your brewshop, if they told you this recipe would work). Otherwise, you can pick up something like Brewing Classic Styles.

 

[edecambra]

I agree too, don't try to make a recipe up from scratch. Honestly I still don't and I have been brewing 1.5 years now. I will also mention that I have won a few medals at local competitions with those tried and true recipes. You can play with a recipe when you have a constant process and know that changing the recipe will actually change the beer (and know that inconsistencies in your process are not the real culprit)

Also there are some specialty malts that cannot be steeped, and must be mashed, like Munich. Crystal and dark roasted malts can be steeped usually with good results.

The 4 batch I made I decided to take the kitchen sink approach to my recipe and added WAY too much roasted grains. The beer was 1.050-1.020 because all of the unfermentable sugars and tasted super bitter from the roast! After 3 months it was a pretty damn good beer, so hope is not yet lost!

 

[edecambra]

Oh and like I said before, brewing classic styles has great recipes (those medals I won were based off Jamil's recipes)

It is a great tool for letting you focus on: first your process from a to z and second which styles you really like and providing you with tons of experience on how different yeasts react and behave to different styles, gravities, temperatures, etc. Do it!