Fruit position in secondary

[Shawnanigans]

Has anyone experimented with where to have the fruit in the secondary fermenter? Adding 4.5 lbs of raspberry to a wheat beer.

Should the fruit be bagged and weighted down to the bottom, left to float freely on top or perhaps suspended in the middle somehow?

 

[Ole_Smoky]

I'm curious about this as well. I'll be trying out a raspberry wheat as well in the next few weeks.

 

[David_Trucks]

I did a raspberry wheat and just dumped them in there. They floated on top and the yeast happily ate away at them. They were white at bottling time. The siphon got clogged up a few times at bottling since the raspberries just turned to pieces, but the beer pours normal, without any extra junk.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I've done browns and wheats with pumpkin, apricots, cherries, oranges, and raspberries (not all at the same time). I've always just chunked them up small enough to get through the carboy hole and let the beer gods do with it as they want. Most of the time everything eventually sinks. It all tuned out great.

Not sure if it would make any difference flavor-wise to suspend or force the fruit to sink.

 

[Shawnanigans]

Ole_Smokey good luck on your raspberry wheat! This is my girlfriends & she wanted lots of flavor. 4.5 lbs sounds like way to much for my liking but we will see.

David_Trucks & FloppyKnockers thanks for the info! I'll be using a bottling bucket as a secondary so I had room to experiment so I was curious.

The fruit will also be in a mesh bag due to needing it clear very quickly. Good to know that you had a clean beer after siphoning without any type of filter though

 

[Ole_Smoky]

Haha thanks, funny this brews for my wife as well. She's not into all the stouts and ipas so I told her I'd make one for summer. I had originally planned 4 lbs in my recipe, maybe I'll bump it up a little, whats standard?

 

[Shawnanigans]

Well I have no idea honestly. Its my first fruit beer ever. But I read the range is 2-5 lbs for a 5 gallon batch. I'll try to talk to my friend tonight and see what he did. He made a Belgium stout with blackberries in it that was absolutely amazing.

 

[Ole_Smoky]

Awesome let me know what you find out. I'm still waiting on ingredients in the mail so I probably won't be starting mine for 2 weeks or so

 

[Shawnanigans]

He said he used a 49oz can of blackberry puree in his 5 gallon batch.

 

[electrolight]

In my experience, I just let it float. But I come shake it up to get some of the alcohol onto the fruit once every day or two. Otherwise the topmost fruit can begin to mold or turn your beer to vineagar.

As far as ratio. It sounds like alot... but Jester King uses 2.5 lbs per gallon... And while it's very noticeable. It's far from too much. Also, it will take a while for the fruit to get fermented thoroughly. You can speed this up by freezing the fruit, this will burst the cell walls and allow the yeast easier access.

 

[Shawnanigans]

Electrolight thanks for the input. 2.5 lbs per gallon sounds insane! I was a bit worried about mold because I'm gonna let it set for two weeks. I may of been over thinking things but I had an idea of top and bottom of the fruit being in the beer would stop mold and increase the area of fruit to beer yielding more fruit flavor.

 

[Ole_Smoky]

My original plan was rack to secondary onto 4lb of frozen raspberries after 7 days then leave it for 2 weeks. Does that sound ok or will that have more of a chance to spoil the raspberries?

 

[electrolight]

Electrolight thanks for the input. 2.5 lbs per gallon sounds insane! I was a bit worried about mold because I'm gonna let it set for two weeks. I may of been over thinking things but I had an idea of top and bottom of the fruit being in the beer would stop mold and increase the area of fruit to beer yielding more fruit flavor.

Yeah... I know. It's crazy. And if you freeze the fruit, aside from bursting the cell walls you stifle any bacteria/yeast that may be on them. Then when you toss the beer on them the alcohol will help make the conditions even more adverse. Just make sure to get the top of the floating fruit wet by swirling the carboy/bucket every now and then.

And as far as top and bottom being in the beer. You don't have to worry too much. After a while the fruit will often sink down causing the top to be submerged. This isn't the case always (I have had some stubborn blueberries once) but with raspberries this was my experience.

 

[electrolight]

My original plan was rack to secondary onto 4lb of frozen raspberries after 7 days then leave it for 2 weeks. Does that sound ok or will that have more of a chance to spoil the raspberries?

at .8lbs per gallon I think that will be just fine. And I'm not sure what you mean by spoil the raspberries. Jester King leaves their beer on fruit for up to 2 months and then re-uses the fruit with another beer for a more gentle fruit touch.

I don't think you'll need to worry about spoilage. That said, you will have a chance for the fruit to succumb to autolysis. And unlike Jester King, you won't have the Brett in your beer to clean up any off flavors that arise. So I think 2 weeks is perfect.,



Also, I'm no expert. I'm just sharing what I've picked up when working with fruit and what I've read about it.

 

[Shawnanigans]

That's exactly what I was going to do too. I'm ending up having to rack after 2 weeks. The beer was still kicking out bubbles on the 7th day. I've never had a fermentation go that long.

 

[Shawnanigans]

∆ that ones for Ole_Smokey.

 

[Shawnanigans]

Yeah... I know. It's crazy. And if you freeze the fruit, aside from bursting the cell walls you stifle any bacteria/yeast that may be on them. Then when you toss the beer on them the alcohol will help make the conditions even more adverse. Just make sure to get the top of the floating fruit wet by swirling the carboy/bucket every now and then.

And as far as top and bottom being in the beer. You don't have to worry too much. After a while the fruit will often sink down causing the top to be submerged. This isn't the case always (I have had some stubborn blueberries once) but with raspberries this was my experience.

I'm sorry I meant to tell you I bought frozen raspberries to begin with. Thanks for all the info! You have helped me to make my decision. Everyone on this post has given me great advice.

But one last thing. You don't mention pasturizing, just freezing. Everywhere I've read they say to heat the frozen raspberries to 170 for 10-20 minutes. Do you feel this isn't necessary?

 

[gundarak]

When i was new to brewing, i once made a very elaborate lemon raspberry wheat ale, and used honey as my carbonation sugar..

It was slightly over carbonated, but the flavor was amazing and everything hit where and when it was supposed to. For a 5 gallon batch I added 1 pound of fresh raspberries and the zest of 2 lemons to the secondary fermenter for 7 days.

Personally, I hate steeping or extraction methods that use heat.. so that leaves me with adding flavorings to the secondary, or producing tinctures to add, or a combo of both.

The harsh reality i have learned if you flavor through the secondary, the flavors will diminish over time.. the shelf life of the flavors probably wont be as prominent after 4 months or so.

 

[gundarak]

oh, to answer your question.. Pasteurizing is one method, the other being to let it sit in some high proof vodka or neutral grain.. thats standard practice for things like cocoa nibs and such.

if you want to pasteurize, i would keep the temp just at 170 for about 15 mins (some people go longer) to minimize the flavor you would lose from heat.

Freezing does not kill bacteria, it only leaves them dormant and stops them from spreading. Check the packaging of your frozen fruit to see if it was pasteurized before freezing. Sometimes you'll find that they were.

 

[Shawnanigans]

When i was new to brewing, i once made a very elaborate lemon raspberry wheat ale, and used honey as my carbonation sugar..

It was slightly over carbonated, but the flavor was amazing and everything hit where and when it was supposed to. For a 5 gallon batch I added 1 pound of fresh raspberries and the zest of 2 lemons to the secondary fermenter for 7 days.

Personally, I hate steeping or extraction methods that use heat.. so that leaves me with adding flavorings to the secondary, or producing tinctures to add, or a combo of both.

The harsh reality i have learned through flavoring through the secondary is that the flavors will diminish over time.. the shelf life of the flavors probably wont be as prominent after 4 months or so.

oh, to answer your question.. Pasteurizing is one method, the other being to let it sit in some high proof vodka or neutral grain.. thats standard practice for things like cocoa nibs and such.

if you want to pasteurize, i would keep the temp just at 170 for about 15 mins (some people go longer) to minimize the flavor you would lose from heat.

I'm not a really big fruit beer fan but that sounds amazing and I would of liked to of tried that. I was planning on using that exact temp and time on this beer. I haven't heard of the other method but good to know. Still really new to home brewing. Only have 4 solo brews under my belt.

I was just kind of curious if it was even necessary to pasteurize the fruits or not. I'm going to because I'm overly cautious on stuff like that, plus its my girlfriends beer and I value my life and happiness.

 

[gundarak]

haha, i only made that beer one time, and yes, it was for my wife keeping them happy is the priority.. hell.. if shes not happy, shes not going to give me the time alone to brew hahaha

your doing the right thing.. i was a bat out of hell when i first starting brewing. the fresh raspberries I used were direct from a farm we went to the day before to pick them.. i just rinsed them off and threw them in the secondary as is :smack:... im really surprised I didnt spoil the whole beer.

 

[Shawnanigans]

I don't think I'm ever gonna be left alone to brew again. She helped me brew this one and she got bit by the bug. I think when she taste what she made I'm gonna have a hard time keeping her away from my brew equipment.

 

[Ole_Smoky]

Haha yah mine to, I usually get her on cleaning duty but she's getting more and more into it. I like the vodka idea for the raspberries to kill bacteria. Maybe soak them In a little vodka for 24 hrs then into secondary and rack onto that.. mm. A strong raspberry beer....

 

[Shawnanigans]

Well since you put it like that Ole_Smoky I may have to make me a raspberry beer now. If I even tried to make her clean she'd either give me a look or slap the crap out of me. Lol

 

[GoCobbers95]

I macerated my raspberries (4lbs) and added to secondary. They floated and turned white. After carefully siphoning to keg, the beer is fantastic.

I'd be interested to hear what your recipes looked like. Yeast?

 

[electrolight]

I'm sorry I meant to tell you I bought frozen raspberries to begin with. Thanks for all the info! You have helped me to make my decision. Everyone on this post has given me great advice.

But one last thing. You don't mention pasturizing, just freezing. Everywhere I've read they say to heat the frozen raspberries to 170 for 10-20 minutes. Do you feel this isn't necessary?

I generally use fruit on my sours. So I don't worry much. Alcohol and freezing is usually enough. Personally, I'd roll the dice. But if you are concerned. I would ONLY heat the raspberries to 160 for 30 seconds in a strainer. Or for 170 momentarily. Then just lift the strainer so they quickly cool. That is all you need. Any more and you are breaking down your raspberries.

 

[Zenzi09]

I just did a cranberry weizen that I bottled today, I just let it float on top and initial tasting it would appear it turned out pretty good

 

[Shawnanigans]

I macerated my raspberries (4lbs) and added to secondary. They floated and turned white. After carefully siphoning to keg, the beer is fantastic.

I'd be interested to hear what your recipes looked like. Yeast?

Glad to hear your beer turned out so good and thanks for introducing me to the term macerate. This is nothing fancy just a extract kit from Northern Brewers. Since it was her first time brewing she wanted to start easy.

But I am looking for a good all grain wheat recipe. I have one I'm gonna try for this summer. There's just something about a good wheat beer on a hot Kansas summer night.

 

[Shawnanigans]

I generally use fruit on my sours. So I don't worry much. Alcohol and freezing is usually enough. Personally, I'd roll the dice. But if you are concerned. I would ONLY heat the raspberries to 160 for 30 seconds in a strainer. Or for 170 momentarily. Then just lift the strainer so they quickly cool. That is all you need. Any more and you are breaking down your raspberries.

I'm going to take this into serious consideration. The more I read on this I've been hearing about flavor & ester loss with the pasturizing process and since she's wanting big raspberry flavor & smell this may be a better alternative.

 

[Shawnanigans]

I just did a cranberry weizen that I bottled today, I just let it float on top and initial tasting it would appear it turned out pretty good

That sounds like a nice combo. I may have to try that sometime.