Frozen apple cider help

[MiBeerMan]

So this is my first post on this forum so Hello everyone from Northern Michigan. Question is Im new to hard cider and I just bought a gallon straight from one of our local orchards. Thing is, is that it was frozen no preservatives and unpasteurized apple cider. Is there anything i need to do to it before pitching the yeast other than obviously thawing it out. Thank you

 

[RPh_Guy]

It's fine just to pitch yeast. Some people use sulfites and/or pectinase.

Welcome to HBT!

 

[MiBeerMan]

It's fine just to pitch yeast. Some people use sulfites and/or pectinase.

Welcome to HBT!

thank you for the reply. Looks like you've made a belgian tripel. Looking forward to eventually starting my beer journey and that is going to be one of them. Our homebrew supply store sells that and it is delicious

 

[MiBeerMan]

So i am trying out the nottingham yeast on one of my 1 gallon experimental batches and and using local indian summer apple juice. Apple juice by itself was 1.051 and i added just short of 1.25 lbs brown sugar and it jumped the OG to 1.10. But i am having a stopper issue. Does anyone else have problem with stopper popping out? The guys at the brew store said it was the correct one for my 1 gallon glass jug

 

[RPh_Guy]

Make sure both the stopper and the inside of the mouth of the jug are dry. Wipe with a clean paper towel if needed.

 

[OpenSights]

Does freezing kill off the wild yeast and other nasties making campden unnecessary? I suppose it could..... if so, I might just start practicing that.

 

[RPh_Guy]

No, freezing does not kill the microbes.

The pitched yeast will outcompete the wild flora.

 

[OpenSights]

So why use campden?

Edit: newby question.

 

[RPh_Guy]

So why use campden?

Edit: newby question.

Some people don't. Many wine yeasts can be fermented cool, which further reduces growth of the wild microbes. Fermenting cool has the added benefit of preserving more apple flavor.

I use sulfite after fermentation to prevent oxidation and to stabilize against unwanted Brett, AAB, and LAB activity long-term.

I did sulfite my juice before fermentation this year. I have noticed that the fermentations create a lot more sulfide with this process, so I probably won't be doing that any more.

FYI Proper dosage for anti-microbial activity requires pH testing and then calculating and measuring the correct amount to achieve a target molecular SO2. Using something like 1 tab per gallon may be way too much or way too little depending on pH.

Hope this helps.

 

[MiBeerMan]

Make sure both the stopper and the inside of the mouth of the jug are dry. Wipe with a clean paper towel if needed.

i soaked the stopper in the sanitizer for a few minutes and then applied it to jug. i did try drying off the stopper and inside jug with paper towel but didn't fully work. i ended up wrapping airlock to jug with duct tape. its actually working because i'm getting bubbles but its not what i wanted to do

 

[RPh_Guy]

In my experience the stopper will only stay in by itself if it's fully dry.

 

[OpenSights]

I’ve always sprayed and lubed everything with starsan since I tore a bunghole once in a bucket lid. Thankfully that batch turned out okay.

Interesting.

 

[madscientist451]

I tore a bunghole once

I hate it when that happens...ruins the moment.

 

[MiBeerMan]

I started a 1 gallon batch 3 weeks ago saturday with Indian Summer apple juice and Nottingham yeast. I added enough brown sugar to bump gravity up to 1.100 and i had it sit in my basement in 60-65 degrees. i never got aggressive bubbles but it was steady. It slowed down to about 1 every 30 seconds so decided to take a test. It is at 1.036. im moving it upstairs in high 60 temp range to see if this makes it faster. Does anyone have any .02 worth of help?

 

[gunhaus]

Patience. Cider can take time. Leave it where it is another week and see what you have then. Worse thing is the fermentation will puke out where you are, which is a bit over 8% abv i think. And at 1.036, you likely will have some sweetness and apple flavor left as opposed to drying it right out to .998 or so.

 

[MiBeerMan]

ok so this is getting aggravating. This cider is over 5 weeks now and still getting bubbles every 30-35 seconds. It has come down from 1.100 to 1.036 (which was 2 weeks ago). i imagine its close to 1.01 area but should it take over 5 weeks? And is it possible to cut the fermentation off early or let it finish? This is my first ever attempt at making hard cider.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Bubbling does not equal fermenting.

Take another gravity reading.

 

[Blacksmith1]

you might also rack and degas. made a huge difference in my cider. lots of trapped CO2 making it seem like the yeast was still working

 

[MiBeerMan]

So, i may chalk this first try up to a learning experience. I need some opinions though. I started 5 weeks ago with indian summer apple juice and added 1.5 lbs brown sugar to get gravity up to 1.100. I did not add any nutrient or anything. I used nottingham yeast and set it in 60-65 degree basement. bubbles never really got aggressive but they were steady. 3 weeks in the gravity went to 1.036. Just now which is week 5 it read 1.023. i went ahead and racked it into another gallon jug and set it in 65ish degree room to try to clear up a little more. I need some expert help on what i did wrong or could improve on. Thank you

 

[RPh_Guy]

How does it taste?

 

[MiBeerMan]

girlfriend is the cider taster and she said it tasted like a semi sweet wine. She thought it was ok.

 

[RPh_Guy]

If she gives it the thumbs up, there you go

I generally make dry sparkling cider (with no added sugar besides priming) or faux ice cider from frozen apple juice concentrate.
I use sulfite when bottling to prevent oxidation.

Cheers

 

[MiBeerMan]

would you know why it would take so long to ferment and still not get it dry? would adding nutrients make that big of a deal? I'm just trying to figure out why i read where a lot of peoples takes 2 weeks and mine was slow going. As far as where i go from here, i plan on just letting it sit for another couple or so weeks to clear up and maybe drinking it then or maybe bottling it. Its just a gallon so we will probably just end up drinking it. Would adding pectin help any or is that mainly for the fresh pressed cider. Sorry for all the questions, just trying to learn

 

[jerbrew]

So, i may chalk this first try up to a learning experience. I need some opinions though. I started 5 weeks ago with indian summer apple juice and added 1.5 lbs brown sugar to get gravity up to 1.100. I did not add any nutrient or anything. I used nottingham yeast and set it in 60-65 degree basement. bubbles never really got aggressive but they were steady. 3 weeks in the gravity went to 1.036. Just now which is week 5 it read 1.023. i went ahead and racked it into another gallon jug and set it in 65ish degree room to try to clear up a little more. I need some expert help on what i did wrong or could improve on. Thank you

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This is by no means expert advice but I have made a few ciders.

One thing to consider is that there are a ton of sugar for the yeast to consume at 1.100 og. Would you expect a beer with that amount of fermentables to be done and ready to drink in a month?

Consider the yeast, there are many factors affecting the effectiveness of fermentation. Juice is pretty devoid of nutrients the yeast require for a healthy growth phase. CO2 and alcohol are essentially poison for yeast. So, as the alcohol increases and if the cider retains a good amount of dissolved gas, your yeast are going to start struggling.

My ciders tend to be a lot slower than I would expect across many yeast strains including some notoriously vigorous saison yeasts. My advice, patience is key and if you can give your yeast as much of an upper hand as possible, than do it. They make the cider you just give them the raw materials.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Adding yeast nutrients would absolutely help it ferment faster and more completely. Also, avoid racking it during fermentation since that may cause a stall.

Pectinase may help with clarity, but it needs to be added before fermentation since alcohol inhibits its action.
There are a variety of fining agents you can use after fermentation.

 

[S-Met]

I need some expert help on what i did wrong or could improve on.

Checking, are you using a hydrometer or a refractometer to take a gravity reading?

1: patience! It's not done until it's done but airlock activity means nothing. May be a few days, could be weeks.

2: why did you add brown sugar? Not wrong, but wondering what the intention.

3: smell and taste? Your GF comments are not your own. How does it taste to you? I usually taste as juice, then again with gravity samples. Noting taste and smell. Stinky fart smell is usually stressed yeast.

 

[bracconiere]

Try wine yeast next time? they tend to handle more acidity better....and higher alcohol, your sitting at 10% right now....nottingham goes up to 14%, but still....

and brown sugar is coated in molasses, which has a lot of unfermentables, i don't think 1.5lbs would be the cause, but something to know....

( and no, i don't know what i'm talking about..you ask... i give, wine yeast next time)

edit: and to second the last post....you are using a hydrometer and not refractometer for this right?

 

[MiBeerMan]

First off, thank you for everyones input. Yes, i am using a hydrometer for readings. And from what i have gathered, probably adding the nutrients to help out yeast should be a must in my next batch. The only reason i used the brown sugar is that most of the post or videos ive seen use brown sugar to up the alcohol. So would just regular white sugar be better?

 

[S-Met]

So would just regular white sugar be better?

Depends on your goal.
I dont typically add sugar. With an SG of 1.051 fermented dry 1.000 you have 6.5-7% abv cider. Plenty of alcohol for me for a sipping cider.
If you are making wine and plan on aging, sugar is an option. Some say brown sugar can add an acrid taste as it ferments. White or brown sugar both boost abv, but neither add flavor. I would argue that it takes away from flavor. I use apple juice concentrate or honey but usually nothing at all.

 

[MiBeerMan]

Im going to try this thing again. Just came back from my local (well, 45 minutes away local) home brew shop and a stop to get more apple juice, i'm determined to make this good. On a side note though, this batch that i just racked too soon ( i was getting frustrated ), i poured about 6-8 ounces into a plastic bottle and threw it out in our northern michigans 30 degree weather for a few hrs.. Its actually kinda good. i started off with 13-14% in mind but cut it off at 10%. It taste like a sweet wine just like my g/f said it did. But now, i want to follow what yall have said and make this right. So, im sticking with the one gallon apple juice and adding the nutrients first and then the yeast. Have a serious question though. I have 2 yeast in my frig and wanted to know if anyone has ever combined 2 kinds of yeast?One is a safale us-05 and other is a liquid belgian saison (it actually has a dec 14 date on it though). also, can i do the yeast nutrient and wait a day before pitching yeast or do i need to do it all at once?
Forgot to add that i'm not going crazy with sugar this time. Probably just do 1/4 to 1/2 lbs at most. this kind of apple juice has consistently come in around the 1.050 mark every time.

 

[Blacksmith1]

I have not used either of those yeasts. However... based on my research the s-05 with drown in alcohol before the saison. (and I could be dead wrong here) This much I do know. if you use 2 different yeasts they might both impart some flavors to your brew, but one will drown in the alcohol before the other and the one that survives will be what decides your ABV.

 

[MiBeerMan]

I have not used either of those yeasts. However... based on my research the s-05 with drown in alcohol before the saison. (and I could be dead wrong here) This much I do know. if you use 2 different yeasts they might both impart some flavors to your brew, but one will drown in the alcohol before the other and the one that survives will be what decides your ABV.

Thank you. That does make sense.

 

[Blacksmith1]

a good cider will be under 10% if it's higher ABV than that you're making wine.

 

[MiBeerMan]

This one came in at 1.070 so should be around 9% when done. I poured in some nutrient so hopefully this one performs a little better for me.

 

[MiBeerMan]

Ok.. next problem. Lol. Thought I was doing good but I come home to find the gasses had pushed the stopper and airlock out of jug. So the batch I made has been without stopper now for God knows when. I just can't win at this game. It can't be more than 3 hrs at most. Does anybody think this will be a problem? I put stopper back on and still getting bubbles.

 

[S-Met]

Ok.. next problem. Lol. Thought I was doing good but I come home to find the gasses had pushed the stopper and airlock out of jug. So the batch I made has been without stopper now for God knows when. I just can't win at this game. It can't be more than 3 hrs at most. Does anybody think this will be a problem? I put stopper back on and still getting bubbles.

RDWHAHB

 

[Saabmike]

Not a problem at all i would sanitize the stopper if it fell and just pop her back in there. Good luck!!

 

[theinterneti]

Yes, moisture, starsan and unrinsed PBW will all cause the bung to slip freely out of the carboy to varying degrees. I wipe the neck and bung down with a rag soaked in starsan and wrung out to nearly dry to dry them off.

I'd like to throw more support behind the "no sugar" necessary camp.

I have done 4 cheap juice ciders and 3 fresh pressed ciders. The ciders I added sugar to have tasted worse (IMHO) generally. My ice cider, which was almost all FCAJ maybe 25% juice and is strong AF, tastes like ass. It's been sitting in the back of my fridge for like 2 months since I tasted it last though.

So far cheap juice with US-05 and yeast nutrient, fermented @ ~68 has been my favorite batch. Really refreshing and easy drinking. The fresh pressed 4 apple cider-blend juice I got from Rev Nat is a close second though. Really complex flavor there, but I think the Nottingham flavor is coming through a bit too much. A taste reminiscent of dried wheat perhaps? Is this what they call 'barnyard' in the tasting guidelines?

 

[MiBeerMan]

Well, to the person that said bubbles don't necessarily mean its still fermenting would be correct. Ive had the 4 gallon batch sitting in basement since Dec 9th and still having bubbles every 40 seconds. I took it upstairs and hydrometer read .998. So, I'm guessing it's done lol. But racking into 4 one gallon jugs now. It is pretty clear already but wanting to let it sit more. i do have one question. If i want to bottle some of this to age, what is the best way of doing this.