FranzisKaner Clone - Help

[CidahMastah]

I am looking for a:

FranzisKaner Clone for both the Hefe and the Dunkel wiess. I am really leaning towards the Dunkel weiss at this point.

I know AHB has this as a clone (9lbs base grains and .75lb specialty from their site), has any body done the AG clone? Care to share your thoughts on how it turned out and what you fermented at? Maybe the recipe for a comparison with some of the others I have found?

One recipe I found for the FranzisKaner dunkel weiss was this:

Type: All Grain
Date: 1/15/2011
Batch Size: 12.00 gal
Boil Size: 13.74 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 76.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
9 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 47.37 %
9 lbs 2 Row Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 47.37 %
1 lbs Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 5.26 %
1.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 11.3 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1 Pkgs Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) Yeast-Wheat

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.044 SG
Bitterness: 11.3 IBU
Est Color: 3.9 SRM Color: Color

Mash Profile

Mash 90 minutes @ 153F.

The FranzisKaner hefe and dunkel have been my favorite hefe's by far from commercial brews. I would love to replicate this.

I would assume ferment is 62F as per jamil's recommendation, but the poster of this recipe didn't say, nor was there any tasting feedback.

 

[Sheldon]

i have a clone recipe for the hefe. let me know if you want it, however, I may not be able to get it online until friday afternoon.

 

[wildwest450]

I did this FD clone for some friends ( i hate the style), they loved it.


Type: All Grain Date: 2/12/2010
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.75 gal Brewer:
Boil Size: 8.91 gal
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: My Equipment
End of Boil Volume 6.24 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.75 gal Est Mash Efficiency 83.5 %



Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 46.1 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 46.1 %
4.0 oz Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 3 2.6 %
4.0 oz Caramel Wheat Malt (46.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.6 %
2.1 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.3 %
2.1 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.3 %
1.00 oz Mt. Hood [5.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 17.2 IBUs
0.25 oz Pearle [7.10 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 2.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Spalter [2.60 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 1.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) [34.90 ml] Yeast 10 -

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

62F fermentation? Or did you typo and meant 72F?

72F will get you more clove/banana, 62F will be much more neutral.

M_C

 

[OLDBREW]

67/33 wheat/pils blend. try 3638 instead of 3068 wyeast fermented at 66*F. use a perle/tett combo bitter addition only for hops at around 12 ibus
I think the OG is around 1.050

Edit their web site says they use over 2/3rd of the grist wheat to barley for their wheat beers.

There was a guy that was living over in Germany for a while and had loved this beer. when he came back home he posted on the NB forum. We played around with the info we could get from the webpagethat was in German only at the time and he was using some munich malt or carafa(dehusked) malt with a 60/40 blend to a 70/30 blend. He had tried different yeasts because it is a yeast not available to the homebrewers.

He said that making a 60/40 blend wheat/pils then adding munich to reach a 1.050 og. a single infusion at 152*F. 60 min boil using perle/tett at 60 to get 12 ibus and then using 3638 was as close as he could come cloning it to what they serve over there on tap.

He was using weyermann malts

I looked for the thread but couldn't find it

 

[CidahMastah]

i have a clone recipe for the hefe. let me know if you want it, however, I may not be able to get it online until friday afternoon.

Would love it! If you can please post it, or PM it.

Thanks!

 

[CidahMastah]

62F fermentation? Or did you typo and meant 72F?

72F will get you more clove/banana, 62F will be much more neutral.

M_C

I had listened to the podcast from jamil and he stated that if you did 62F at correct pitching rate you will get the perfect balance of banana and clove. Have you had contrary results?

I think the recipe I posted was one that you provided!

 

[CidahMastah]

I did this FD clone for some friends ( i hate the style), they loved it.


Type: All Grain Date: 2/12/2010
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.75 gal Brewer:
Boil Size: 8.91 gal
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: My Equipment
End of Boil Volume 6.24 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.75 gal Est Mash Efficiency 83.5 %



Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 46.1 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 46.1 %
4.0 oz Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 3 2.6 %
4.0 oz Caramel Wheat Malt (46.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.6 %
2.1 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 5 1.3 %
2.1 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.3 %
1.00 oz Mt. Hood [5.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 17.2 IBUs
0.25 oz Pearle [7.10 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 2.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Spalter [2.60 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 9 1.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) [34.90 ml] Yeast 10 -

thanks! I used to hate this stuff, but I guess after you brew a couple kegs of it it grows on you. ha!

The carmel wheat is interesting. I sort of tasted a carmely slight banana in the FD I tried. I think the carmel might be what I was looking for.

 

[wildwest450]

thanks! I used to hate this stuff, but I guess after you brew a couple kegs of it it grows on you. ha!

The carmel wheat is interesting. I sort of tasted a carmely slight banana in the FD I tried. I think the carmel might be what I was looking for.

No problem, I believe this to be a solid recipe, just not my go to style.


_

 

[CidahMastah]

60/40 wheat/pils blend .try 3638 instead of 3068 wyeast fermented at 66*F. use a perle/tett combo bitter addition only for hops at around 12 ibus
I think the OG is around 1.050

FYI - I plan on using 351 i.e. 3638. I seem to like this yeast more than the 3068 so far. Thanks!

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I had listened to the podcast from jamil and he stated that if you did 62F at correct pitching rate you will get the perfect balance of banana and clove. Have you had contrary results?

I think the recipe I posted was one that you provided!

That's interesting that Jamil would have said that... Wyeast's page ( http://www.wyeastlab.com/com_b_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=135 ) says:

The classic and most popular German wheat beer strain used worldwide. This yeast strain produces a beautiful and delicate balance of banana esters and clove phenolics. The balance can be manipulated towards ester production through increasing the fermentation temperature, increasing the wort density, and decreasing the pitch rate. Over pitching can result in a near complete loss of banana character. Decreasing the ester level will allow a higher clove character to be perceived. Sulfur is commonly produced, but will dissipate with conditioning.

So a slight underpitch and a higher temperature would get you to more banana (if that's what you like of course), according to Wyeast.

I'm about to brew that recipe again. Glad you liked it!

M_C

 

[CidahMastah]

That''s interesting that Jamil would have said that... Wyeast's page ( http://www.wyeastlab.com/com_b_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=135 ) says:



So a slight underpitch and a higher temperature would get you to more banana (if that's what you like of course), according to Wyeast.

I'm about to brew that recipe again. Glad you liked the recipe!

M_C

Yeah it was a pod cast on the brewer's network under dunkel weisse, but he talks about the yeast usage in both hefewiezen and dunkels.

Check it out here if you can deal with the long banter :
http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Dunkelweizen-The-Jamil-Show-04-07-08

good information, but at a price. Though I don't consider everything he says as golden. Also he states this with his recipes in his brewing classics books for hefe and dunkel.


Would you compare this brew to franziskaner? I assume you go with a different ferment temp?

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Yeah it was a pod cast on the brewer's network under dunkel weisse, but he talks about the yeast usage in both hefewiezen and dunkels.

Check it out here if you can deal with the long banter :
http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Jamil-Show/Dunkelweizen-The-Jamil-Show-04-07-08

good information, but at a price. Though I don't consider everything he says as golden. Also he states this with his recipes in his brewing classics books for hefe and dunkel.


Would you compare this brew to franziskaner? I assume you go with a different ferment temp?

I'll have to check the podcast later, it's firewall'ed here.

If you were to ferment the recipe I posted at around 68F, you'd get VERY close to Franziskaner. Keep in mind that the Franz we get in the US (on tap) has seen 4,000+ miles of travel, who knows at what temperature. The Franz in Germany is much more aromatic than what we get here. And the bottled version here? All of its hefe goodness is gone.

I always serve my hefe's very young. When it's done fementing, put it in the keg, apply CO2, and start drinking ASAP!

Also... I never bottle hefe.

M_C

 

[CidahMastah]

I'll have to check the podcast later, it's firewall'ed here.

If you were to ferment the recipe I posted at around 68F, you'd get VERY close to Franziskaner. Keep in mind that the Franz we get in the US (on tap) has seen 4,000+ miles of travel, who knows at what temperature. The Franz in Germany is much more aromatic than what we get here. And the bottled version here? All of its hefe goodness is gone.

I always serve my hefe's very young. When it's done fementing, put it in the keg, apply CO2, and start drinking ASAP!

Also... I never bottle hefe.

M_C

Cool - just what I was looking to here.

This was my thought, I liked the bottled dunkel, but want to brew it to see if a fresh version would make me a bigger fan. I see the potential in the brew, but you can tell it has lost something.

Things I do like about the commercial version are... that subtle vanlilla/banana slightly sweet aftertaste. I was thinking a fresh version would be very much on point.

If you recc 68f - I will shoot for that. Hopefully I can get to this brew this weekend.

I don't bottle ANYTHING unless it is like arrogant bastard, or a stout/porter. Like to keep 4 running on tap at all times, but leave the bottles out of it

 

[Sheldon]

6.5 lb wheat malt
2.25 lb pilsner malt
5. lb aromatic malt
.5 lb flaked barley
.25 acid malt
.25 munich malt
.5 Halleraur hop 60 min
.25 perle hop 15 min
.25 spalter hop 15 min
1 WLP300 (because I have it)

mash 151 degrees for 60 min
5.25 gal batch
OG 1.051
FG 1.013

Good luck

 

[mojo21136]

I've had really good luck with the dunkel recipe from brewing classic styles to the point where I have had friends complain that they are reduced to drinking Sierra Nevada Kellerwies when they run out of my homebrew.

I do agree with what Wyeast says about the yeast. I overpitched a little the last time I brewed and there was a noticeable difference in the amount of banana characteristic (or lack there of). It was still excellent but I'm going to probably stress the yeast out a little the next time I brew to get the flavor back.