Force carbonation help

[allen3436]

Hi, yesterday I did my first force carbonation and i tried it out today. I brewed a NEIPA and an american wheat beer that i carbonated. I would like some input. Both dont taste flat and actually taste great, however i dont have much for head retention. My process. Onnce the beers were all done fermenting i put the beers downstairs in my basement for roughly 24 hrs. The temp in my basement is roughly 66 degrees. I have palmers latest version of how to brew. I used his table for kegging beer. At 65 degrees with the regulator set at 25 PSI it says i should get 2.5 volumes of c02, 30 psi 2.8 volumes of c02. So the NEIPA i set to 25# let the keg equalize to that pressure, once it did i shook the keg, let it equalize. I did that 4-5 times. I repeated that with the american wheat only at 30 psi. I then put it into my keezer set @ 40 degrees and let sit overnight. This morning I set my regulator to serving pressure 10-14 psi, keg took more c02 so i let it equalize and basic repeated the same steps only @ 10-14#. I put it back in the keezer, when I got home from work turned on the C02 @ 10-14 psi (both took a little more c02). I poured a glass of american wheat, i could tell it was carbed and it had a little less than 1/4" of foam at the top (i poured directly into the glass i didnt tip it). The NEIPA didnt have much if any foam on top, it did have some C02 bubbling to the top just not what i would consider normal (this too was poured directly into the glass). Also noticed the bubbles were smaller than using a priming sugar and bottle conditioning. What are your guys thoughts?

I have a few questions. 1. should i do anything? 2. Can i reforce carb my beer with beer temp at 38-40 degrees? According to palmer if temp is @ 40° set the pressure to 15 I would get 2.7 volumes of C02 with that process i described. 3. what would you experienced keggers do? 4. when im done with the C02 whether its right after force carbing or just using to pour should i unhook the C02 from the kegs? Right now I just turn C02 off and leave it hooked to the kegs. I do know down the road to once in awhile to turn c02 on to serving pressure to equalize. Am i worrying too much? thanks for all your help, one thing im glad i dont have is straight foam in my glass!

I have 10' of EVA 3/16 ID beer lines for my taps and 1/4" ID for gas.

 

[day_trippr]

Are you using a carbonation table (like, our favorite) to determine "chart pressure" to use for your "serving" CO2 pressure? The proper CO2 pressure used to dispense beer is not an arbitrary thing - it is specific to the temperature to maintain the desired carbonation level, and should (must) be accounted for by the dispensing system to provide good pours.

So, should you do anything? What I would do is set your CO2 pressures via the table and allow time to fix everything perfectly
Can you do something quicker? Keezers don't lend themselves to the whole "rocking the keg" method, so I'd stick with: "No. Be patient and let time do its thing". What do I do? My pipeline allows for cold-conditioning/carbonation in a separate fridge from my keezer, so I never have to put a keg in the keezer until it is good and truly carbonated.
As for CO2 supply - I don't get why you're shutting off the gas - ever. Once I put a keg on tap the CO2 is never turned off 'til the keg kicks.

EVABarrier is a hard metric product, so I'm betting you're using the 5mm ID for beer and 6mm ID for gas. 10' of 5mm should work as long as the CO2 pressure at the keg is around 10-11 PSI. Gas side doesn't matter a whit - you could use 4mm ID for that with no issues - but using barrier tubing there scores bonus points wrt minimizing total oxygen pickup at the system level...

Cheers!

 

[allen3436]

Is there a way I can force carb and still be able to enjoy my beer the following day with my set up? I was just trying to bypass some wait time. My gas line is the red 1/4” id line and my beer lines are the Eva barrier line. Honestly I’m new at kegging, I don’t think I have leaks but I just didn’t like the possibility of leaking C02 i paid for into the air plus with a 18 month old and 3 year old well you know what else I’m trying to avoid ...... well I’ll go turn my gas back on leave it and lock the door! Thanks!

 

[day_trippr]

Well, there's only two ways I know of to reliably enjoy fully carbonated beer in only 24 hours using kegs.

One: the Blichmann "QuickCarb" machine for a mere $180 plus whatevers (taxes, S&H, etc).

Or - and considerably cheaper: chill the keg to your dispensing temperature, hook it up to CO2 at chart pressure, then rock the keg back and forth maybe 6" either side of upright until you don't hear any gas entering the keg (trust me, you'll know when you get there). First pass might take ten minutes or so, then put the keg back in the fridge for a couple of hours to chill back down. Then bring it back out, put it back on gas and repeat the rocking until you don't hear any more gas flowing. Might take three or four minutes for that pass. Repeat once or twice more and you will have a nicely carbonated keg of beer with zero risk of overcarbonation...

Cheers!

 

[allen3436]

Thanks for all your help!

 

[DuncB]

Make sure the CO2 is on a good high pressure and the valve open before you reconnect it or have a non return valve, you don't want to backfill that nice new regulator during your efforts to get the keg carbed.

 

[Kickass]

I use this chart based off the article on brulosphy. It’s not the fastes but it’s pretty fast and doesn’t involve the, IMO, loathed keg shake.
https://brulosophy.com/methods/carbonation-methods/

 

[allen3436]

Just wanted to update, set my pressure to 15 and left for a few days. Drew a glass every day, each day more carbonation. Everything is carbed up nicely. However, I wonder if it is just a tad over. There’s a decent amount of foam in the glass when I pour initially. I usually just fill the glass half full wait a few minutes and fill to 3/4 and usually that will bring the foam to the top of the glass. I was thinking of dropping the pressure to like 12. Would this help after awhile or is there no lowering? Thanks for all the input and help.

 

[fragged]

Just wanted to update, set my pressure to 15 and left for a few days. Drew a glass every day, each day more carbonation. Everything is carbed up nicely. However, I wonder if it is just a tad over. There’s a decent amount of foam in the glass when I pour initially. I usually just fill the glass half full wait a few minutes and fill to 3/4 and usually that will bring the foam to the top of the glass. I was thinking of dropping the pressure to like 12. Would this help after awhile or is there no lowering? Thanks for all the input and help.

Yep, that's that's problem with quick carb methods. I now use the brulosophy method linked earlier and plan to come up low in carbonation. After a week on its proper pressure, it's perfect. If your keezer is at 40 degrees and co2 is at 15, you are at 2.7 volumes, overcarb for most beers. You need to reference the chart @day_trippr linked.

For your overcarb, there is a sticky post at the top of this sub. I've used it, works well. Overcarbed Keg here's an instant solution

 

[allen3436]

I brewed a American wheat and American ale, the chart I referenced for volumes of c02 had wheat from 2.8-3.3 and American ales 2.2-2.7 so I went low with one and higher with the other. The chart for volumes of c02 per style came from palmers how to brew book. I’ll look at the over carbed solutions you linked to, thanks!

 

[bracconiere]

i carb by weight....1.23ozs is a volume, and beer at certain temp has certain amounts of residule co2....

i keep my tank on this scale anyway to catch leaks quick, so it was only natural to start using that fact to only add how much co2 i want with a burst carb at 50psi...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KYA0RC2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[allen3436]

It’s also not coming out straight foam, all liquid just a tad too much head, I just have to wait a couple minutes it goes down and I just add more. Everything tastes great just feel like I’m could have less so head to where I fill up enough beer to only have like 1”.

 

[fragged]

It’s also not coming out straight foam, all liquid just a tad too much head, I just have to wait a couple minutes it goes down and I just add more. Everything tastes great just feel like I’m could have less so head to where I fill up enough beer to only have like 1”.

I may have misunderstood, if so my apologies. When you said your first force carbonation, I took it as meaning you've kegged before but are trying some quick carb methods.

If it's your first couple kegged beers then I'll start with - congrats!

Then I'd ask:

1) How long your beer lines are?

2) What is the inside diameter of the lines?

3) What kind of tap are you using?

4) Is only the first pour foamy? For this, I'm talking what happens if you pour two full pints, back to back?

 

[fragged]

i carb by weight....1.23ozs is a volume, and beer at certain temp has certain amounts of residule co2....

i keep my tank on this scale anyway to catch leaks quick, so it was only natural to start using that fact to only add how much co2 i want with a burst carb at 50psi...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KYA0RC2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Oh that's pretty clever - I knew to measure co2 by weight, but it never occurred to me to use that as weight to volume in solution.. I was thinking about getting a scale per keg, for a brewpi board. Couple years ago it was more than I wanted to spend, but guessing they've come down now.

 

[bracconiere]

Oh that's pretty clever - I knew to measure co2 by weight, but it never occurred to me to use that as weight to volume in solution.. I was thinking about getting a scale per keg, for a brewpi board. Couple years ago it was more than I wanted to spend, but guessing they've come down now.

well, i had to ask around on these forums, and people helped me figure it out...got the tip for the scale from someone else that kept their kegs on a couple of them. love the piece of mind it gives me glancing at it when i pour a glass, make sure it hasn't dropped some ridiculous amount....

 

[fragged]

well, i had to ask around on these forums, and people helped me figure it out...got the tip for the scale from someone else that kept their kegs on a couple of them. love the piece of mind it gives me glancing at it when i pour a glass, make sure it hasn't dropped some ridiculous amount....

Ya, either my tank was lower than I thought, or I have/had a leak - to your point I'd know immediately which one if it was on a scale.

 

[bracconiere]

Ya, either my tank was lower than I thought, or I have/had a leak - to your point I'd know immediately which one if it was on a scale.

yeah weight is the only way to do it, because liquid is constant psi....don't know till it's oh ****.....

 

[allen3436]

I may have misunderstood, if so my apologies. When you said your first force carbonation, I took it as meaning you've kegged before but are trying some quick carb methods.

If it's your first couple kegged beers then I'll start with - congrats!

Then I'd ask:

1) How long your beer lines are?

2) What is the inside diameter of the lines?

3) What kind of tap are you using?

4) Is only the first pour foamy? For this, I'm talking what happens if you pour two full pints, back to back?

I may have misunderstood, if so my apologies. When you said your first force carbonation, I took it as meaning you've kegged before but are trying some quick carb methods.

If it's your first couple kegged beers then I'll start with - congrats!

Then I'd ask:

1) How long your beer lines are?

2) What is the inside diameter of the lines?

3) What kind of tap are you using?

4) Is only the first pour foamy? For this, I'm talking what happens if you pour two full pints, back to back?

No worries, I just started brewing last fall.
I am already annoyed with bottling. So I decided to keg.

I may have misunderstood, if so my apologies. When you said your first force carbonation, I took it as meaning you've kegged before but are trying some quick carb methods.

If it's your first couple kegged beers then I'll start with - congrats!

Then I'd ask:

1) How long your beer lines are?

2) What is the inside diameter of the lines?

3) What kind of tap are you using?

4) Is only the first pour foamy? For this, I'm talking what happens if you pour two full pints, back to back?

No worries, i probably didn’t explain it right. I just started brewing last fall and I am already tired of bottling. So I decided to keg and use growlers. But to answer your question I am using 10’ of EVA barrier line 3/16” ID. Just a standard 3” shank 3/16” ID barb beer tap. I haven’t poured back to back just enough for me for a drink. I just pull the tap tip the glass and pour, i stop roughly when the glass is full and stop. Foam will then build enough to where I have to wait a minute or two for it to go down then I finish pouring to top off the glass. Also do you guys keep your co2 on? I’m having a hard time with that. I have been but since I turned down the psi from 15 to 12, I still here a small trickle. Not sure why I’ve checked everything and nothing is leaking.

 

[bracconiere]

, I still here a small trickle.

say bye-bye to your tank if you can actually hear it!

 

[fragged]

Awesome, all checks out as far as your lines and taps then. I'd pour back to back and see where you are. You want around a 10 second pour,, based on your lines you are probably there if not longer,
which is ok..

I find on higher carbed lighter beers, the first pour is usually foamy. This is from latent heat in the tap, not much you can do. If the second beer is all foam though, then you likely have a clog somewhere, usually in the poppet of the beer out post. Basically the debris in there causes turbulence, which causes the co2 to come out of solution.

I keep my co2 on. I also either keep all co2 lines hooked to kegs, or I shutoff that line, each CO2 line has its own shutoff. I trust the orings on the keg post to seal more than the sealing oring in the disconnect. I don't ever trust that oring because I don't ever service them on the gas side.

Edit: double check for leaks. Unrelated to your foam issue,, but you want to make sure that the tank doesn't empty out on you. A leak of any size will drain a tank in 24 hours max. I dunk the disconnects in a bucket of star San to check them, then spray star san on the connections to look for bubbles.

 

[allen3436]

I redid all my thread tape, no more sound (I thought the sound was the sound of the gas going to the kegs) I did some troubleshooting and it all came back to the regulator. as soon as I pressure up the lines to 12# and then connect back to keg, nothing all is quiet. Im
Glad I double checked. I really appreciate all the suggestions, definitely next round of kegs I’ll use the brulosophy method.

 

[fragged]

I redid all my thread tape, no more sound (I thought the sound was the sound of the gas going to the kegs) I did some troubleshooting and it all came back to the regulator. as soon as I pressure up the lines to 12# and then connect back to keg, nothing all is quiet. Im
Glad I double checked. I really appreciate all the suggestions, definitely next round of kegs I’ll use the brulosophy method.

For a quick carb method, I really like the brulosophy way. Ive done it a lot of ways and that's the best of the bunch. All the "old dogs" around here are right though, nothing beats just letting it sit at the right gas psi for a week or so. That's hard to do if you don't have many kegs though.