Force carbonation help

[Ramblinrose]

Hi all! I’m new to brewing and seem to be having trouble with carbonating my Sanke kegs. I’ve got 3bbl system so I’m running more beer than a home brewer but still brewing on a small scale. I currently have 8 5gal Sankes of American Pale Ale force carbonating with 23 psi at 55 degrees. I took the kegs off carbonation at 5 days and moved one of them to my kegorator that’s running between 38-40 degrees. I’ve got my serving psi set at 15. My problem is the kegs have very low carbonation. Everything I’ve read seems to indicate that the carbonation should be more prevalent at 23psi for 5 days. I’ve tested all my lines for leaks and haven’t found any. Is there something I’m missing or doing wrong as a newbie?! Thanks in advance for any insight!

 

[Rob2010SS]

Were the kegs warm while you had them at 23 psi? The only thing I can think of is if you tried carbonating warm and then chilled the beer to 38-40, you might not have gotten as much CO2 in there as you would have had you carbonated cold.

Nevermind, just saw the answer to that question, you were carbonating at 55*F. Perhaps that was it? I just had the same issue with a stout. It took 3-4 days at 30 PSI to carbonate.

 

[homebrewer_99]

From what I've learned, cold beer absorbs more CO2 quicker than warm beer.

When I rack to a corny I'll purge it and pump some gas in to it (to ensure a good seal). I'll chill it for 24 hours and gas it up while it's cold.

 

[Vale71]

Beer can absorb more CO2 cold rather than warm, it does however do so more slowly with decreasing temperature. This is a chemical reaction and therefore it runs faster the more energy is available (i.e. higher temperature). The downside is of course that you'll need to set a higher pressure to get the same carbonation level at equilibrium than you would need at lower temperatures.

If this weren't the case than beer would also lose carbonation faster when cold rather than when warm, as it is in fact the same (reversible) reaction just going in the opposite direction, but we all know that a warm beer goes flat faster, don't we?

 

[homebrewer_99]

Beer can absorb more CO2 cold rather than warm, it does however do so more slowly with decreasing temperature. This is a chemical reaction and therefore it runs faster the more energy is available (i.e. higher temperature). The downside is of course that you'll need to set a higher pressure to get the same carbonation level than you would need at lower temperatures.

If this weren't the case than beer would also lose carbonation faster when cold rather than when warm, as it is in fact the same (reversible) reaction just going in the opposite direction, but we all know that a warm beer goes flat faster, don't we?

After I started kegging the owner of the place I get my tanks would tell me to come back the next day because the tank needed to be chilled in the freezer before filling because it could hold more gas cold than warm.

About 2 years ago he got his own tanks and now we just trade out. I like this better because I had to pay for pressure testing of my older tanks when they expired. Of course, I did lose all the stickers I had on them.

 

[Vale71]

Was the gas CO2 or Nitro? If it's the former than what he said is BS. CO2 is liquefied and sold by weight, 1 kilo of CO2 weighs the same at 25°C as it does at 0°C. If it's the latter then he was an idiot. Cooling the tank to fit more gas in it is just plain dangerous. Once you take the tank out of the freezer pressure will start increasing and if it exceeds the vessel's rated pressure you risk (at best) the relief valve bursting open.
Please note that filling a gas tank has got obviously nothing to do with carbonating beer (i.e. dissolving CO2 in a water-based solution) other than the same tank being used as a convenient source of CO2.

 

[Pkrd]

Your pressure is a little high if anything, but 5 days is probably a little short for set and forget carbonation.
https://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table/

What do you mean when you say you have low carbonation? Do you have a lot of foam but not much in the way of bubbles afterwards?

 

[Ramblinrose]

Your pressure is a little high if anything, but 5 days is probably a little short for set and forget carbonation.
https://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table/

What do you mean when you say you have low carbonation? Do you have a lot of foam but not much in the way of bubbles afterwards?

I’m thinking I just didn’t give it enough time on carbonation. When I say low carbonation, what I mean is, the first pour pours with a 1 to 1 1/2 in head but pours 2 and 3 pour with no head at all and non of the pour have many bubbles afterwards.

 

[balrog]

I'm playing with this calc, kinda back and forth with many variables to balance it but it is the most interesting one I've found so far, time, temp, pressure. I've yet to attest to it's veracity.