Force carb at 50F with 13psi and 2.15 CO2 levels?

[letsbrew]

Hi guys,


I have no way to get down to the lowers 30-40F so if i carb my beer at 50F with 13psi how long does it take to carb?


I will carb in a bright tank that holds 15psi as maximum.



Cheers!

 

[Hex23]

Would you be taking any measures to increase surface area/exposure? Calculating an exact time would be pretty complicated but could offer guesses.

 

[letsbrew]

Would you be taking any measures to increase surface area/exposure? Calculating an exact time would be pretty complicated but could offer guesses.

Iwll be using a carbonation stone i bought this one http://www.gwkent.com/pico-carbonator-7-8in-x-5in-stone-with-tc-15in.html and i will be using a bright tank of 1bbl to carbonate, but since i just can get down to 50F i was wondering in the time needed it to carb and compare it with the normal 2 weeks time for carbing by using priming. So if the time i need to carb at 50F is almost the same time to carb with priming i will chose the priming option

 

[JRems]

It depends on how much carbonation you want. If you max out you brite tank at 15 psi at 50 degrees you will have 2.3 volumes of carbonation. Most beers are carbed to 2.5-3 volumes. You should be able to carb it With the stone in less than 2 days. Just start at 1-2 psi and increase the psi 1 psi every 3-4 hours.

 

[letsbrew]

It depends on how much carbonation you want. If you max out you brite tank at 15 psi at 50 degrees you will have 2.3 volumes of carbonation. Most beers are carbed to 2.5-3 volumes. You should be able to carb it With the stone in less than 2 days. Just start at 1-2 psi and increase the psi 1 psi every 3-4 hours.

I will have to find where to get an insulation thermal elastomer to cover very well the bright tank and maybe i could get it down to 40F because the tank comes without the ASME certified (American Society of Mechanical Engineers) so thats why they tell you 15psi as maximum but it could stand more pressure but i dont want to prove it hehe.

In that way i can carb a little bit more as you said 2.5-3 levels of CO2, i need to carb a robust porter with 2.5 levels of CO2 (its maximum level) and thanks to the carbonation stone i hope get it done faster as you say. I see a test using water, carbing the water to test it

 

[audger]

there is another trick brewers use if you need to carbonate quickly and dont mind wasting a little extra CO2... (or sometimes a LOT extra)

chill the beer to as cold as you can, and bubble CO2 thru the stone in the bottom of the tank. there is a bit of math that takes into account head pressure on the stone, depth of the stone, etc, but basically you vent CO2 out of the top of the tank after it bubbles up thru. this way you can keep bubbling from the bottom wihtout the pressure building at the top and slowing the bubble stream coming from the stone. more bubbles = more surface area = faster CO2 dissolving.

some people vent the head pressure in the tank to zero (ambient). while others use a spunding-type valve that just keeps a minimum differential pressure and vents off the excess. the latter method wastes slightly less gas, and, depending on the differential, can carbonate even quicker.

 

[Hex23]

there is another trick brewers use if you need to carbonate quickly and dont mind wasting a little extra CO2... (or sometimes a LOT extra)

chill the beer to as cold as you can, and bubble CO2 thru the stone in the bottom of the tank. there is a bit of math that takes into account head pressure on the stone, depth of the stone, etc, but basically you vent CO2 out of the top of the tank after it bubbles up thru. this way you can keep bubbling from the bottom wihtout the pressure building at the top and slowing the bubble stream coming from the stone. more bubbles = more surface area = faster CO2 dissolving.

some people vent the head pressure in the tank to zero (ambient). while others use a spunding-type valve that just keeps a minimum differential pressure and vents off the excess. the latter method wastes slightly less gas, and, depending on the differential, can carbonate even quicker.

Interesting. I wonder how much effort it would be for a homebrewer to build a re-circulating system to re-capture the CO2 that comes out in the headspace and pump it back in. I assume this is the way commercial breweries force carb? I assume some of the gas that comes off the headspace is not CO2, but other gasses forced out. But I would think that might not make much difference. Would moving O2 in and out of solution increase the rate of oxidation?

 

[wilserbrewer]

Interesting. I wonder how much effort it would be for a homebrewer to build a re-circulating system to re-capture the CO2 that comes out in the headspace and pump it back in.

Sorry to be a nay sayer, but i don't think this is going to happen...the cost and complexity would outweigh a lot of C02.

 

[Hex23]

Sorry to be a nay sayer, but i don't think this is going to happen...the cost and complexity would outweigh a lot of C02.

Where did I say it had to be practical

 

[letsbrew]

there is another trick brewers use if you need to carbonate quickly and dont mind wasting a little extra CO2... (or sometimes a LOT extra)

chill the beer to as cold as you can, and bubble CO2 thru the stone in the bottom of the tank. there is a bit of math that takes into account head pressure on the stone, depth of the stone, etc, but basically you vent CO2 out of the top of the tank after it bubbles up thru. this way you can keep bubbling from the bottom wihtout the pressure building at the top and slowing the bubble stream coming from the stone. more bubbles = more surface area = faster CO2 dissolving.

some people vent the head pressure in the tank to zero (ambient). while others use a spunding-type valve that just keeps a minimum differential pressure and vents off the excess. the latter method wastes slightly less gas, and, depending on the differential, can carbonate even quicker.

excellent

 

[audger]

Sorry to be a nay sayer, but i don't think this is going to happen...the cost and complexity would outweigh a lot of C02.

unless you are curious and wanted to experiment, yes something like that would be way too complex to be worth the extra small amount of time you would save carbonating.

you would need a 3rd port on your keg (one regular liquid out with dip tube, one regular gas in with a carb stone, and one extra gas out that would go to the pump).

as long as you didnt have any oxygen to begin with, you shouldnt pick up any extra from pumping CO2. however if you didnt fully purge the headspace, you would pretty much be oxygenating the beer with your carb stone.