Foaming with kegs

[MrSpaz]

So I just moved to kegging and I still can't get carbonation correct to pour. I have 1/4" quick disconnect to picnic tap. I have tried pouring at 10-12 psi and have even bled co2 and tried to pour at 3-5 psi. I still get way too much foam in attempting to bottle and pouring a pint. I tried moving from 6 ft to 12 ft of tubing and that helped a bit but it is still very foamy. I have tried to research and crunch the math involved, but I can't figure out what I am doing wrong. Any suggestions or corrections for me? Thanks in advance.

 

[grampamark]

You mention a 1/4” QD. Are your beer lines 1/4” as well? Most folks use 3/16” beer lines. The larger diameter would make it easier for Co2 to come out of solution.

Ten-twelve feet of 3/16” and 10 psi should be about right for beer carbed to 2.5 volumes, or so.

 

[day_trippr]

How was this keg of beer carbonated?

 

[MrSpaz]

Force carbonated at 30 for couple days. Then let sit at 15 psi or so for the past couple of weeks

How was this keg of beer carbonated?

 

[day_trippr]

Was the beer already cold when you started the carbonation?
If so, it may be that two days at 30 psi was too much...

Cheers!

 

[MrSpaz]

You mention a 1/4” QD. Are your beer lines 1/4” as well? Most folks use 3/16” beer lines. The larger diameter would make it easier for Co2 to come out of solution.

Ten-twelve feet of 3/16” and 10 psi should be about right for beer carbed to 2.5 volumes, or so.

Yes. Bought 1/4" from internet. Should I maybe buy 3/16 and see if I can fit it in? Or am I screwed?

 

[homebrewfinds]

12 ft of 1/4" ID isn't nearly enough resistance. I have a step by step guide on balancing your system that should help... https://www.homebrewfinds.com/2014/06/balancing-your-draft-system-three.html

 

[grampamark]

Yes. Bought 1/4" from internet. Should I maybe buy 3/16 and see if I can fit it in? Or am I screwed?

Why would 3/16 not fit where 1/4 does?

The larger (1/4”) lines are only needed for really long runs. The point of setting up a kegging system is to have enough back pressure in the plumbing to prevent the gas from coming out of solution with the beer-essentially “outrunning” the beer on the way to the faucet. Your larger diameter lines are likely the cause of your problem.

 

[balrog]

Are you operating the taps all open or trying to half open them, as that will always foam.
What temp is the beer, the lines, the tap? They need to be all cold, worst case would be cold beer, warm lines, warm tap.

 

[MrSpaz]

That is surprising, as my calculations said 12 feet should be sufficient. But your article suggess doubling the estimate.

12 ft of 1/4" ID isn't nearly enough resistance. I have a step by step guide on balancing your system that should help... https://www.homebrewfinds.com/2014/06/balancing-your-draft-system-three.html

 

[MrSpaz]

Everything is cold and tap all the way open

Are you operating the taps all open or trying to half open them, as that will always foam.
What temp is the beer, the lines, the tap? They need to be all cold, worst case would be cold beer, warm lines, warm tap.

 

[balrog]

Well to @day_trippr 's point, bleeding CO2 from tank of cold beer that is over carbonated merely releases head pressure for a moment. THe dissolution of CO2 into or out of 5 gallons of beer occurs over time, like a week or two, not instantaneously. If the beer is over carbed, you could bleed all pressure off keg, shake, repeat, let sit for a few days, bleed pressure every day, then you get it down to normal -- if that's the problem.

 

[sicktght311]

Couple of things here..........

1) 10-12 ft lines should be PLENTY of backpressure. I'm running 6-8ft of 3/16" beer lines in my keezer and i never have foaming, with a serving pressure of 12-13psi
2) 30psi for 24-48 hours shouldnt overcarbonate if its a 5 gallon keg size. Thats what i regularly do when i quick carb. I'll run it at 30psi for 24-36 hours and then drop the pressure out, and let it carb the rest of the way at serving pressure for the next week. I'd be suspicious if it was overcarbed unless he had the temp at like 32 degrees and it was a smaller keg size
3) as long as EVERYTHING is cold, foaming shouldnt come from that. So its strange.
4) The only thing i can think of is maybe you're getting air in your lines somewhere? Are all of your hose clamps tightening down enough? Do you have clear lines? Can you see tons of foam or bubbles in the lines as its coming out of the keg, or is it mostly foaming when its coming out of the tap

 

[MrSpaz]

I have seen bubbles coming from keg into line. I tightened hose clamps as much as possible

Couple of things here..........

1) 10-12 ft lines should be PLENTY of backpressure. I'm running 6-8ft of 3/16" beer lines in my keezer and i never have foaming, with a serving pressure of 12-13psi
2) 30psi for 24-48 hours shouldnt overcarbonate if its a 5 gallon keg size. Thats what i regularly do when i quick carb. I'll run it at 30psi for 24-36 hours and then drop the pressure out, and let it carb the rest of the way at serving pressure for the next week. I'd be suspicious if it was overcarbed unless he had the temp at like 32 degrees and it was a smaller keg size
3) as long as EVERYTHING is cold, foaming shouldnt come from that. So its strange.
4) The only thing i can think of is maybe you're getting air in your lines somewhere? Are all of your hose clamps tightening down enough? Do you have clear lines? Can you see tons of foam or bubbles in the lines as its coming out of the keg, or is it mostly foaming when its coming out of the tap

 

[day_trippr]

Couple of things here..........[...]
1) 10-12 ft lines should be PLENTY of backpressure. I'm running 6-8ft of 3/16" beer lines in my keezer and i never have foaming, with a serving pressure of 12-13psi

Not if the OP is using 1/4" ID lines. He'd need almost 35 feet of that to tame 12 psi.

2) 30psi for 24-48 hours shouldnt overcarbonate if its a 5 gallon keg size. Thats what i regularly do when i quick carb. I'll run it at 30psi for 24-36 hours and then drop the pressure out, and let it carb the rest of the way at serving pressure for the next week. I'd be suspicious if it was overcarbed unless he had the temp at like 32 degrees and it was a smaller keg size

He used 30 psi for 48 hours on a cold keg. From countless similar episodes observed on HBT, that's at least 12 hours too long. The beer is almost certainly overcarbonated.

3) as long as EVERYTHING is cold, foaming shouldnt come from that. So its strange.

Not really, given the evidence. Overcarbed beer through minimal line resistance = foamy pours.

4) The only thing i can think of is maybe you're getting air in your lines somewhere? Are all of your hose clamps tightening down enough? Do you have clear lines? Can you see tons of foam or bubbles in the lines as its coming out of the keg, or is it mostly foaming when its coming out of the tap

If there are bubbles coming out of the keg it's the overcarbed beer slowly releasing CO2 because the system pressure now is well below that needed to maintain equilibrium...

Cheers!

 

[MrSpaz]

Ok so I need to get 3/16. Can you tell me where I went wrong with calculating how many feet I need? I want to figure it out so I don't make the same mistake down the road. Resistance is 0.85 for 1/4" vinyl correct?

 

[day_trippr]

Use the only beer line length calculator worth using...
http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

Cheers!

 

[MrSpaz]

Unreal. That calculator tells me something completely different than what I read. Thanks for this!

Use the only beer line length calculator worth using...
http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

Cheers!

 

[BrewieVessi]

I use a corny keg draught tap that looks like this https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Faucet-Liquid-Disconnect-HomeBrew/dp/B073ZW3VQT

Is it possible to have a length of tubing inside of the keg, that would create the back pressure needed? OR, is it possible if you reduced the diameter of the keg dip tube, it would get you the proper back pressure to balance the system. We will assume you are putting this keg in a normal fridge and that you want the back pressure to be enough for your average carbonated beer.

 

[balrog]

search around on the site, there were some posts as I recall about putting "epoxy mixers" into the dip tube
I have never tried it as I thought it would just introduce agitation and knock out CO2, but some said it worked.

I use those taps directly but they are awesome when the beer is really cold and the keg pressure only needs to be a couple psi to push it out. Once the temp in my hatchway gets to 50 or more, it just does not work and I have to move to a 10' line and picnic tap, so I can raise the keg pressure to 15psi or more

 

[wsmith1625]

I have seen bubbles coming from keg into line. I tightened hose clamps as much as possible

Bubbles coming out of the keg into the beer line is a definite sign of overcarbed beer. That's co2 escaping from the beer.

If your co2 in the beer and the regulator set pressure are equal, this won't happen. Use the carb volumes charts to determine the correct carb level for the style of your beer and temperature and set the regulator accordingly. Then you need to release the carbonation from the beer until it matches the regular pressure.

I read a thread once on how to instantly fix overcarbed beer. I'm going to look for it and post a link for you. Coming soon.

 

[BrewieVessi]

Thanks guys, appreciate the support.

 

[wsmith1625]

Here is the link to instantly fixing overcarbed beer. BTW, just realized this is an old thread but posting it anyway for anyone who needs it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/overcarbed-keg-heres-an-instant-solution.127655/