Foaming problem

[Toecutter]

Does the Co2 pressure have anything to do with foaming ?? I'm running 16 psi about 3 volumes.

I do need to make some adjustments to my kegerator/tower to make sure the beer temps stay as cold as possible.

Thanks for any help.

 

[DustinHickey]

Hey man,
Yes, pressure has a lot to do with foaming. However foaming can be caused by a few things. Give us some more info.

1) what temperature is your fridge?
2) How long is your beer line and what size is it?
3) when you pour does do you see bubbles in the beer line or does it only foam after it comes out of the tap?
4) 16 PSI is high depending on your temperature. It will also pour beer too fast if you don't have enough line to restrict the flow.

Taking a guess I would say your overcarbing or you don't have enough beer line on your system for 16 PSI serving pressure. But then again I have seen some weird things. I had a hole in my dip tube about halfway through the keg once so it always started foaming halfway through the keg. Doubt it's that though. Give us some more info and we can figure it out.

 

[Toecutter]

Hey man,
Yes, pressure has a lot to do with foaming. However foaming can be caused by a few things. Give us some more info.

1) what temperature is your fridge?
2) How long is your beer line and what size is it?
3) when you pour does do you see bubbles in the beer line or does it only foam after it comes out of the tap?
4) 16 PSI is high depending on your temperature. It will also pour beer too fast if you don't have enough line to restrict the flow.

Taking a guess I would say your overcarbing or you don't have enough beer line on your system for 16 PSI serving pressure. But then again I have seen some weird things. I had a hole in my dip tube about halfway through the keg once so it always started foaming halfway through the keg. Doubt it's that though. Give us some more info and we can figure it out.

Thanks for your response.

1. 38 dg
2. about 5 ft. 1/4 dia (i think, It came attached with the tower)
3. When pouring the first glass, a chilled 20 oz, I get about 18 oz of foam, then it starts to clear up. I'm thinking the line is getting colder the more the beer flows through it
4. Yes, the beer flows faster at 16 PSI.

In my system, I have a converted mini fridge, outsde under my bar. I ues 2" PVC as a duct from the top of the fridge through the bar top, about 6". The tower sits over the PVC attached to the bar top. I have a PC Muffin fan in a hobby box with a 1" hose attached ducting cold air up into the tower, but it does not get much cold air up there. I'm thinking of modding the 2" PVC by getting rid of the fan, but putting a piece of insulated copper pipe down the center and up into the tower to run the lines through. I have seen a couple people on here do that, and it might help.

 

[j1laskey]

I run 10 feet of 3/16 beverage line. Before I made this switch I had major issues also when trying to use 1/4. IMO.

 

[Toecutter]

I run 10 feet of 3/16 beverage line. Before I made this switch I had major issues also when trying to use 1/4. IMO.

I'll have to measure mine to be sure. How does the length and diameter affect the it ? Can I use the same attachment nipples or do those have to be changed as well ??

 

[Toecutter]

After some research, I find I have 5' of 3/16 id. I have a Micro Matic tower, and that is what comes stock on it.

 

[wildwest450]

What type of beer are you serving at 3 volumes? That's high for most styles.

 

[DustinHickey]

Hey man,
Ok, After reviewing your info.

Your PSI seems correct for 3 volumes of co2 at 38 degrees F. (although rare for most beers)

If the temp of your beer line was the issue it would stop foaming after the first pour.

at a rate of 3 PSI / foot of restriction in beer line, you would get about 1 PSI at the tap. This is about right. You can try going with 10'-0" to see if it helps the problem. It will slow the pour down a bit and may reduce the amount of foam you get.

Since most of the above seems correct, let me ask a few more questions:

1) Did you force carb this or use the set and forget method? If you force carbed, you may have overcarbonated it and that would cause the foam.

2) if you force carbed, how much PSI for how long?

3) IMPORTANT - When you pour, do you see bubbles in your beer line or does all the foaming start at the outlet of the tap? (your beer line should look like solid beer, no bubbles) if you see any there is a problem at the QD or in the dip tube)

4) I hate to ask this but I've seen it many times -- Do you know how to pour a beer? (open tap quickly and completely, 45 degree angle and such?) I stress the "open the tap quickly and COMPLETELY.

I dont want to say how many times I've had to teach a bartender to pour a beer becaues he couldn't get the tap to stop foaming from opening it halfway.

 

[Toecutter]

What type of beer are you serving at 3 volumes? That's high for most styles.

Ales

 

[Zen_Brew]

Yes 3 volumes of co2 is quite high for most styles of beer. There are only a select few styles that are traditionally served at a higher carbonation level such as Saisons or some wheat beers.

Your primary cause of foaming is your length of beer line. There are calculators out there, but for a normal run where the beer is only moving through a verticle lift of a foot or two, you usually need just shy of, or right around 1 ft of 3/16 line per psi.

Before you get the correctly sized line though we should verify that the 16psi is in fact the correct psi setting, as that setting would be too high for most styles at the temperature you are keeping the beer at. For most beer stlyes you want to be more in the range of 2.25-2.5 volumes of co2, lower for heavier beers such as stouts. That puts the correct psi setting for most styles at that temperature somewhere in the 9-12 psi range with 10 or 11 being the happy medium that is often run at. Even at that lower psi 5 ft of 3/8 line is going to give you a glass of mostly foam.

edit:
I see while I was responding you indicated you do mostly ales. At that temperature try setting your regulator to 10 or 11 psi and running 9 of 10 ft of 3/8 line. You may have to bleed pressure off the keg for a couple days till the extra co2 works it's way out of solution. You can quicken this process by letting the keg sit with no gas on it for a couple days at room temperature and releasing the pressure every couple hours. Than just re-chill it and hit it with the 10 or 11 psi

 

[wildwest450]

Ales

Oh boy. My friend there are many kinds of ales. And there aint many served at those high volumes. I recently did a brown ale and served it at 6psi. My pale ales and ipa's are served around 12psi. That's at 42f.

 

[DustinHickey]

Ales

It should not be the cause of foaming but most ales are carbed between 2 and 2.5 volumes. Next time I would dial it down. Only a few specialty beers are carbed that high. See my previous post for foaming issue questions.

 

[Toecutter]

Fantastic. Thanks for all the help. When I get home tonight I'll back down the PSI to 10 , and in the mean time I'll plan on getting longer lines, and change them out when I modify my tower with the copper pipe.

Is it OK to coil the extra line with a couple of ties so it isnt dangling around in the kegerator ??

 

[DustinHickey]

Fantastic. Thanks for all the help. When I get home tonight I'll back down the PSI to 10 , and in the mean time I'll plan on getting longer lines, and change them out when I modify my tower with the copper pipe.

Is it OK to coil the extra line with a couple of ties so it isnt dangling around in the kegerator ??

yea thats fine. I however run around 13 PSI at 40 degrees and have 6'-0" of beer line. I have no foaming problem. I don't think the beer line is the issue. Try dialing the PSI down and see how it pours. Also, just for the hell of it check the beer lines and see if there are any bubbles in them. It could help to lengthen the beer line but it shouldnt foam with 5' of beer line when properly carbed at 13 PSI or less. Like I said, the additional beer line may help but I dont think it's the problem.

Problem is either combination of overcarbonation / high serving pressure or internal problem such as QD or blockage / hole in the dip tube. (that is why I say to check the beer line to look for bubbles). If no bubbles then its just too much carbonation at too much serving pressure.

-Dustin

 

[Toecutter]

i have 2 beers on tap right now at 16 PSI, a HEFE, and a hoppy Ale. I am getting more foam with the Hefe. I usually run my pressure at about 10 PSI but I saw a post from someone who liked it at 16 PSI so I thought I would try that. I'll back it down when I get home . I'll also check the lines for bubbling. I did not use the force carb method, just set and forget.

Thanks for everyones help

 

[Zen_Brew]

yea thats fine. I however run around 13 PSI at 40 degrees and have 6'-0" of beer line. I have no foaming problem. I don't think the beer line is the issue. Try dialing the PSI down and see how it pours. Also, just for the hell of it check the beer lines and see if there are any bubbles in them. It could help to lengthen the beer line but it shouldnt foam with 5' of beer line when properly carbed at 13 PSI or less. Like I said, the additional beer line may help but I dont think it's the problem.

-Dustin

Dustin.
If you are pouring at 13psi through 6' of 3/16 beer line and not getting foam then you are the exception and not the rule. There are many threads on here where people went with the 5' lines often attached to starter kits and had foaming issues until they upgraded them to longer lines. I had the same issue on my starter kegerator kit with 5' lines and cobra taps. Always had 1/2 glass, and usually more of foam till I put 9' lines on the kegs. The original poster could have some other restrictive issues, or foaming in the lines as well, but most of my experience, reading, and even line calculators indicates
5' is way too short even for a 10psi serving pressure, unless the run happens to be 5' pure verticle rise which simulates a greater restition due to moving the beverage uphill against the flow of gravity.

If you are doing OK with 6' lines, that's awesome. Just don't be so quick to discount the longer lines that solved the foaming problem for so many other keggers.

 

[Zen_Brew]

Fantastic. Thanks for all the help. When I get home tonight I'll back down the PSI to 10 , and in the mean time I'll plan on getting longer lines, and change them out when I modify my tower with the copper pipe.

Is it OK to coil the extra line with a couple of ties so it isnt dangling around in the kegerator ??

Yes, coiling the lines is what most of us do. You can get some adjustable ties to loop the line and then just set it on top of the keg. You are better off having the line looped and sitting the loop with a horizontal orientation to the loop because if the loop is facing vertically up and down it creates hills and valleys as the beer travels through the line that can create pressure differentials and foaming in the line.

 

[badmajon]

I got 5 feet of line with my Kegconnection kit. I need to turn down the PSI to 4 PSI each time I pour (down from 10psi equlibrium pressure). My beer line is too short to cancel out the PSI, and if I don't turn down the pressure, I get foam instead of beer. WTF keg connection was thinking, I don't know.

 

[Toecutter]

Whew what a day. so I tore into my kegerator to revamp the lines. sooo i got two 10' lines. tore out the old ones, tore out the old 2" PVC and fabricated a new piece. Then I inserted a 1'" diameter piece of copper pipe down the tower into the kegerator. i incapsulated this with liquid insulating foam . then i ran the new lines down the copper pipe. on the end of the copper pipe where it terminates in the kegerator, i installed a copper "T" on the end. now one leg of the T the lines go through. the other has a hose on it that leads to the the muffin fan box. so now i'm pumping cold air up a piece of copper pipe with lines running through it, so the temp loss from the kegerator to the tower should be minimal

I put my corneys back in. dialed the pressure in at 10 Psi. less foam, and much slower pour for sure. we will let the kegerator cool down to operating temp and see if the foaming gets better

 

[Toecutter]

alright, it's been over a week, and my system seems perfectly balanced. 10' of beer line and pressure at 11 psi, and i get about 1/2" of foam with each glass. each beer seems to have perfect head, and excellent carbing, so i think my lines are staying cold enough in the tower. thanks for everyones help

 

[Zen_Brew]

Thanx for the update hefeluver. I'm glad to hear your system is functioning much better for you now. It's always nice to get an update and hear what did or didn't work to solve the problem.


Enjoy
Cheers