Foam Issues

[grampska]

If there’s been one issue in my 15ish years of brewing that’s nearly pushed me to the brink of throwing my equipment into a pond it’s carbonation.

I have two kegerators at two locations. One is a standard single tower kegerator with two taps and one is a DIY keezer with a 4” collar with 4 taps. The kegerator has 8’ of 3/16ID hose and hovers around 34F and the keezer has 12’ of 3/16ID hose and has an Inkbird set for 36F with a 2F window. The keezer also has a small fan to help circulate air. They’re both set for 12 psi which considering an extra 3 psi for 6000’ of altitude should put me in the green zone of the carbonation charts that I’ve seen.

I carbonate my beers at serving temperatures in the keezer and it takes about 2 weeks.

Both have the same problem of being overly foamy and when pouring it almost looks like it alternates between foam and beer. And when I say foamy, I’m talking about an inch or two of beer to the rest of the glass being head from the kegerator and about 50/50 from the keezer. And this is doing the whole tilt the glass thing.

I’ve triple checked my measurements and settings but must be missing something obvious here.

 

[Miraculix]

Lines too short?

 

[camonick]

I can think of several reasons for foamy pours. Let’s try to eliminate some.
1. Are you opening the tap to the full open position when pouring?
2. Do you notice the same problem when pouring a second beer right away?
3. Do you have any other devices in the beer line besides the keg QD and the tap that would cause any restrictions or turbulence?

Lines too short?

4. This is going to be my guess… since you’re using 3/16” tubing, buy some extra tubing and make 1 line much longer. I see so many posts about this and everybody is always trying to use the bare minimum length of tubing recommended. I know there are multiple charts and calculators out there that say you need “X” feet for “these” conditions, but those are for ideal situations where there are no variances (regulators might not be “lab quality” calibrated, thermometers may not be accurate, etc… you see?) Longer lengths don’t hurt anything. The only thing that happens is, it shortens the time to fill a pint glass by a second or two. I don’t know about anyone else, but I can afford to wait a few extra seconds to get my beer.
I run my regulator at about 12-13 psi and when I was using 3/16” tubing, I had 16’ + lengths of line on my taps and got good pours. Coil up the hose and use zip ties or tape and they won’t take up any more room than anything else. Could I have shortened them, perhaps, but a few extra dollars for tubing wasn’t the end of the world.

 

[Broken Crow]

Thankfully you sound like someone who knows what you're talking about, so help us out a bit more;
How long have you been using your kegerator and keezer?
Are these sudden and new problems?
Have you changed up what type of brew you are doing?
Are your taps and lines adequately cooled?
What kegs are you using and what condition are they in?

 

[grampska]

Lines too short?

Not according to a few calculators I’ve tried but I could try a little longer.

1. Are you opening the tap to the full open position when pouring?

Yes

2. Do you notice the same problem when pouring a second beer right away?

Yes. At least with the kegerator. I don’t pour multiple beers from the same tap enough on the keezer to say there’s a pattern.

3. Do you have any other devices in the beer line besides the keg QD and the tap that would cause any restrictions or turbulence?

Nope. Straight from the Sanke couplers to the tap.

How long have you been using your kegerator and keezer?
Are these sudden and new problems?

A couple years each in their current configurations. The keezer has always been foamy and the kegerator has been much worse over the past few months.

Have you changed up what type of brew you are doing?

Nope. Pretty much the same things.

Are your taps and lines adequately cooled?

The keezer definitely is. The kegerator has a tower so that’s not as good but it’s not just the first pour.

What kegs are you using and what condition are they in?

Sanke kegs. Some are brand new some are hand me downs from defunct local breweries.

 

[camonick]

The kegerator has 8’ of 3/16ID hose and hovers around 34F

Yes. At least with the kegerator.

8’ is too short for 12 psi.
Just my 2¢, but I’m still in the camp that your lines are too short regardless of what the calculators say.

For 50¢ per foot, I’d recommend trying one long line like I suggested above. You can base your decision on that.

 

[grampska]

8’ is too short for 12 psi.
Just my 2¢, but I’m still in the camp that your lines are too short regardless of what the calculators say.

For 50¢ per foot, I’d recommend trying one long line like I suggested above. You can base your decision on that.

Yeah, it doesn’t hurt to try. Thanks

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, when I was still using 3/16" ID Bevlex 200 PVC lines I used 1 foot of line for every PSI of CO2 pressure. At 12 PSI I would have 12 feet of tubing. That said, you can't really go wrong using Mike Soltys calculator, though I tend to be a little more conservative.

Questions:

- If you were to pour two 12 ounce beers back to back, is the second pour better than the first?
- Before your next "first pour of the day", open the keezer or kegerator and check the beer lines for gas pockets.
- When you pour a beer and it's foamy, open the keezer or kegerator and see if the foam starts back at the keg end of the line

Let us know the answers

Cheers!

 

[grampska]

- Before your next "first pour of the day", open the keezer or kegerator and check the beer lines for gas pockets.
- When you pour a beer and it's foamy, open the keezer or kegerator and see if the foam starts back at the keg end of the line

I forgot to check before the first pours this week but I checked after and there are several pockets of air/foam. One of those is on a new coupler and the other is a hand-me-down from the brewery I work at. Everything seems seated well.

 

[day_trippr]

If you could check before and after it could help solve your pour quality issues. At this point I suspect the keg is gassing out because its carbonation level exceeds the conditions it finds itself in now...

Cheers!

 

[grampska]

If you could check before and after it could help solve your pour quality issues. At this point I suspect the keg is gassing out because its carbonation level exceeds the conditions it finds itself in now...

Cheers!

If you could check before and after it could help solve your pour quality issues. At this point I suspect the keg is gassing out because its carbonation level exceeds the conditions it finds itself in now...

Cheers!

The line I'm using as an example here I the light one in the middle of the pictures. The darker one with the larger air gaps is on a line that I just kicked the keg of recently.

This is what it looks like before pouring.


And after


And vid of pouring

and topping off

And I'm embarrassed by how bad the front of the keezer needs to be cleaned.

 

[day_trippr]

A bit confused as the beer in the first video looks dark like the line with darker beer in the keezer.
But whichever beer and line it is it's clear there were a ton of gas pockets built up and it caused havoc with the pour,

The second video plays but no video actually shows.

What I can't see in the second picture is if the line was left totally filled after that pour was completed. If it is I suspect the beer in the keg is at a carbonation level higher than your current temperature & pressure combination supports, so the beer is outgassing over time and building up those bubbles. If you feel the carbonation level is correct, try dialing up the CO2 pressure until the beer stops outgassing into the line. A virtually identical issue was solved in just that manner this week with another member's system...

Cheers!

 

[grampska]

Found that thread you mentioned. I’ll turn it up a couple notches.

I guess I shouldn’t rely on Brewfather for carbing numbers if overcarbed beer turns out to be the problem.

 

[grampska]

Found that thread you mentioned. I’ll turn it up a couple notches.

I guess I shouldn’t rely on Brewfather for carbing numbers if overcarbed beer turns out to be the problem.

Turning up the PSI definitely didn't help.

I'll have to figure something else out.

 

[grampska]

I was thinking about how I might have overcarbed these which would explain the 2 kegs that have had issues with the kegerator. Those were done in the garage fridge and I might not have recalculated the pressure for the slightly lower temperature.

However, the two kegs in the keezer right now were carbed in there and so they're under the same pressure they were carbed at.

 

[grampska]

Ok, I think I have everything figured out but haven't confirmed on the kegerator since that's at the band's practice space.

Kegerator:
- probably over carbed due to being in the fridge which hovers around 34F but I might have still had the pressure set for 11psi - I'll probably just deal with this for now because that keg is nearly kicked

Keezer
- one beer was over carbed for the pressure due to messing around with things. this one was definitely carbed in the keezer but during all the messing around the pressure when I was originally working on this dropped to 10PSI for some reason. setting it to 11PSI and this one is pouring perfectly
- the other beer which is definitely overcarbed (even though I'm quite certain it was carbed in the keezer and not the outdoor fridge so I'm not sure how things got messed up) but turning up the PSI makes things worse and I'm not going to hook up new longer line just for this one messed up beer. I'm going to try hooking up a spunding valve to this one to see if I can get it back down.

I'm guessing this is what it looks like when a beer is overcarbed for the set pressure.

 

[day_trippr]

I can't find a codec that supports that video...

 

[grampska]

Uploaded to Youtube.

 

[day_trippr]

Yeah, there's definitely a pressure mismatch going on right there

Cheers!