Flying Blind

[GrillaRays]

Over the past 3 years I have successfully brewed over 250 gallons of great tasting beers with Extract Kits; a 5 gallon batch every 3 or 4 weeks. Today I decided to make a go of it with All-Grain. I thought I had prepared myself, and now I just hope I can salvage this boondoggle.
First, I missed my mash temp target (152) by under 5 degrees. So, I added a few more quarts of hotter water, but that wasn't hot enough to make any difference. After an hour I attempted a mash-out with boiling water but the mash temperature barely came up to 157 degrees. Then my fly-sparge ended after an hour and a half with 6.5 gallons of wort with a specific gravity of 1.048. The target was supposed to be 1.064
And if that wasn't enough after all that effort, I ran out of daylight. I sealed up the boil kettle and plan to do the boil tomorrow (I hope that's not a mistake.) Maybe there is a way to make some corrections to get this batch back on track? Can I add anything to bring up the specific gravity? Is there a forum that focuses on work-arounds for these type of shortcomings?

 

[rlmiller10]

So what are you aiming for? What is the post boil target OG? What are you making?

You should be fine boiling tomorrow. Anything that might have started to grow will be killed.

You can always add a little extract to bring up the gravity.

You had a low mash temp so will probably end up with a dryer, more fermented beer with a lower FG than expected? So you might not want to bring up the gravity too far as it will probably end low.

If you do nothing but complete the brew this beer should still be good, just a little dryer and possibly lower in alcohol than expected. So call it boondoggle session.

The main thing is to learn from this. Why was your mash temp too low? bad calculation? colder than expected grain? bad thermometer?

Why was the fly sparge so long? bad equipment? compacted grain bed? perhaps just batch sparge?

Give some more details of your method and the friendly people here are sure to offer a treasure of help and knowledge.

 

[MaryB]

Was the sparge stuck? If that happens stir the grain bed and drain it and deal with the chaff in the boiler later. My sparge yesterday for a 11 gallon batch took me 40 minutes, I like a fairly slow runoff.

 

[GrillaRays]

Thanks for your replies, Ron and Mary.
I guess I’m suffering from the usual frustrations of doing something for the first time, especially when it reminds me of how much I Don’t know…
The all-grain kit is an IPA with a target OG of 1.064. I guess I don’t understand the difference between the pre-boil and post-boil gravity. The extract kits never instructed me to take a pre-boil reading.
I read on the internet to heat the strike water 11 degrees higher than the target mash temp (152) so I heated it to 163, but it quickly settled in at 147. I had the cooler pre-heated with boiling water first, and I’m guessing the grist was 85 degrees since I milled it outdoors today. I don’t have a computer program for home brewing, so I try to find the information I need on the internet. It also recommended to sparge using just a small trickle which is why it took 90 minutes to fill the boil kettle.
Do you think one of those beer applications would be helpful to walk me through the steps, I’m not sure?
I like your idea to name it my Boondoggle Session Ale. All of my friends will probably love it, and I won’t be able to re-create it! LOL.

 

[RM-MN]

When you use extract the amount of sugars in the extract is known. When you do all grain you may not get the best efficiency so by knowing the pre-boil gravity you can determine how much to boil off to hit the proper post boil gravity. By the time you boil your wort for the hour you'll be close to your expected OG.

When you use a program to get your mash temp (http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/infusion.html) you need to know the temperature and weight of the grain. Guessing the temperature won't do, you have to measure it.

To make your brew day less frustrating, take the equipment and steps down to the minimum. BIAB only requires a pot (your boil pot) and a bag (paint strainer or brew bag). You don't need to mash out or sparge (unless you want to, there is some gain to sparging) which will save you a bunch of time and frustration. Once you have the mash process down, you can return to your 2 or 3 vessel brewing if you want to. Many people who have tried BIAB after doing 3 vessel won't go back.

 

[GrillaRays]

Thanks for the link to the calculator, RM. That should help me alot. Good point on keeping it as simple as possible. I will read more about the different mashing strategies. Thanks again.

 

[brewcat]

Don't worry too much about it. My first all grain batch went much the same. The beer turned out fine. About the 3rd or 4th time things were going smoothly. It just comes down to learning new equipment & process.

Figure out your strike water and go from there.http://www.brewheads.com/strike.php

On fly sparging shoot for 1 quart per minute. 6.5 gallons would take 26 minutes.

One last thing. What was your mash water amount? I use 1.33 quarts per pound of grain.

 

[mongoose33]

I read on the internet to heat the strike water 11 degrees higher than the target mash temp (152) so I heated it to 163, but it quickly settled in at 147. I had the cooler pre-heated with boiling water first, and I’m guessing the grist was 85 degrees since I milled it outdoors today.

Part of this depends on how much grain you're using. I also pre-heat my cooler w/ boiling water (a gallon) that I put in maybe 20 minutes before doughing in. While it's pre-heating I cover it w/ my insulation blanket (it's just...a blanket ).

There's a big difference between 13 pounds of grain and 7 pounds. I've always struggled to get the temp high enough. I brewed Sunday, and I was about 15 degrees higher than mash temp. Ended up at 153, had about 168 degree water going in. And that's with a 12-pound grain bill where the grain was probably....oh, 72 degrees or so, give or take.

One thing you can do is to use a little hotter water than you might think you need. If the mash is too warm, throw a few ice cubes in to bring it down.

The other thing that comes to mind is how you doughed in. I put all my strike water in the preheated mash tun as quickly as I can, then using a big scoop I sprinkle in the grist as fast as I can stir it in with the mash paddle. I used to drain my strike water into the tun through the ball-valve. I know that cooled it as it took a longish time.

I now scoop my strike water out of the boil kettle with a gallon pitcher--I can get all but about a half-gallon out in about a minute or so; the remainder I dump in since the kettle doesn't weigh much at that point. I don't want that cooler open any longer than I have to. How long did it take you to dough in? In my case, it's maybe 3 minutes, maybe a bit longer.

Anyway, good on you for trying all-grain. And FWIW, I'd look at batch sparging if I were you.

 

[GrillaRays]

Thanks for all your tips and ideas. Today I finished the "brewday" where I left off yesterday. It was all familiar to me and there were few problems to solve. Surprisingly, everything finished off better than I expected. I only missed my specific gravity by .002 points and my volume just shy of a half gallon. I guess I'll be obliged to drink it :smack:
My first mistake was probably spending too much time doughing-in, speculating that is where I missed my mash temp by 5 degrees. Next time I will stir much more quickly.
It makes sense to take a closer look at batch sparging for future brews, and as long as I use the Rubbermaid cooler for my mash tun. My thanks to everyone for your support.
I'm glad I finally pulled the all-grain trigger

 

[MaryB]

I open my ball valve about halfway when sparging. It is not running hard but it isn't a trickle either. To fast can cause a stuck sparge, to slow is just, well SLOW! You will learn what is the happy medium after a few brew sessions!

 

[Homercidal]

Welcome to All Grain brewing! This sht happens all the time, even to experienced brewers. You'll get a feel for how to proceed with your system and develop methods that will make brewing simple.

And the more you learn about the various steps, the easier it will be to correct any issues when they come up.

Things to think about:

Your preboil gravity is determined by the amount of water and the amount of grain you use, and is affected by the efficiency of the mash to convert the grain starches into sugars, and by the ability of your system to get the wort of the mash tun and into the boil kettle. Add in the mash temperature and mash pH and you can see that it's not a straightforward as it first appears.

That said, it's mostly a simple process to get everything working well. Temperature may be the most common issue for new AG brewers. Understand that the more grain you use vs the water, the more heat will be lost when mixed. Obviously the faster you can get it mixed well and the dough balls broken up, the better. Calculators can tell you, based on the size of your mash tun, and the ratio of grain to water, how hot to strike in at. I always try to add a few degrees in case the calculations are off. It's way easier for most people to add a few ice cubes to their mash, than to add boiling water, or heat up a portion of the mash separately and add back.

The calculators will likely ask you for the size of mash tun, and temperature of grain.

As far as Preboil GRAVITY, your grain crush may have the biggest impact on that. A finer crush can provide for a more efficient mash process, but it can lead to stuck sparges. A happy brewer has a crush that gives an efficiency they can live with and doesn't cause a stuck sparge (some ingredients can also help create stuck sparges...) A courser crush merely wastes a bit of grain. It's easily combatted by buying a little more grain. And Rice Hulls are a cheap way to help prevent stuck sparges.

I recommend trying out one of the various recipe calculators. I personally use Beersmith, but there are many useful programs out these days. You can also calculate your water needs fairly easily if you can do simple math and know how adjust for things like grain absorption and boil-off.