Florida Weisse - how to sour

[Norselord]

I am intending to do something along the lines of a 'Florida Weisse.'
Or at least my interpretation of one, which is a Double Berliner Weisse with some fruit in secondary.

My question is about the method for getting that tangy sour/tart taste. I have read a variety of opinions and threads and there appear to be many different ways of getting it done. I am going to post the method i intend to use, and would like to get your thoughts on whether or not this will produce a tart beer.

The grist will be 40% pilsner malt, 45% wheat malt, and the remainder split between acidulated malt and carapils. I intend to mash this at 150F in my mash tun with the lid on tight. I will mash for...3 days...

After this time i will sparge, boil, and ferment like any other wheat beer using a relatively neutral wheat yeast strain like a Wyeast 3056.

The original gravity should be about 1.050ish and a final gravity a little under 1.010.
I'll bitter with mandarina bavaria hops to about 10IBU and add some Citra at 15 minutes and at flameout.

I'll rack this onto 5lbs of frozen Mango chunks for a few days, cold crash, and rack to keg.

Does this process look like it would produce a sourish beer? I have not done any souring before.

 

[SanPancho]

if you mean you are going to leave the mash going for 3 days at mash temps, i dont think thats gonna work. if you are just gonna let it cool down after mashing and keep it covered, that might work. but kinda risky.

probably a better idea to add some bacteria you know/trust. probiotic pills, probiotic drinks, yogurts, or even a bacteria culture from homebrew shop. l. plantarum, l.rhamnosus, l.brevis are your best bets.

lastly alot of folks like to add acid to wort to get it down to 4.5pH before adding bacteria. this is after running off into the kettle.

ideally, youd want some way to test the pH. but if you just say "3 days" at 70-80-90F temps then that'll probly work. when you taste the wort it may not taste sour ( its barley sugar water) but when it starts getting real low like into the 3.3 to 3.1 range in pH it will smell sour. strange but true.

for a 5 gallon batch, you can get a goodbelly probiotic drink that has like 20billion cells of bacteria. should be plenty. they have mango flavor. shake it up well before you pitch. also good to cover the wort with saran wrap to keep air exchange to minimum.

 

[Norselord]

Wont the lactoacillus in the acidulated malt both reduce the pH and provide a seed culture?

Yes, i mean let it set in the mash tun for 3 days and let the temperature naturally drop from 150 to upper 90s

 

[SanPancho]

as i understand it acid malt is sprayed with lactic acid. its a faster production method. but it wont inoculate your wort. and after mashing at 150F for 30-40-60 minutes most of the lactic bacteria should be dead. but not all, and not all of the other types of bacteria. which is why alot of folks "sanitize" the wort by going to 170-180F for a few minutes before pitching sour bugs.

if you want to be traditional, then get some raw wheat and throw it in after you get the wort into the kettle. or raw barley. but the catch is that there could be other bugs on the grains besides the lactic acid kind, and you can get some funky results. in that case you are generally supposed to follow certain temperature and pH protocols to avoid off flavors- butyric acid is the big one, smells like vomit.

thats why its just easier to use a bacteria you know will be good. but if you really want to do it natural/traditional, then mash up about a liter of wort and let that sour with raw grains. if it smells good then you could put it into a full batch and feel a bit confident.

but i think you'll find most folks here and in the commercial brew world just prefer to play it safe, since you know what you're gonna get from the probiotics from the store.

 

[SanPancho]

and if you havent seen it already, check out milk the funk's page on lactic acid bacteria and souring. lots of good info there, specific to souring beer.

 

[Norselord]

OK.

So do you sour in the mash tun prior to boil?

 

[SanPancho]

I do biab brewing so its the same vessel for me, i mash, then pull the grains and raise to 175 for 5 min.

If you use two vessels youd lauter and sparge and then heat the wort and sour it in the kettle. Hence the term “kettle sour. “