Flip top problems

[Wing Nut]

I purchased 72 flip top bottles and have used them with little sucess. It would seem that the tops arent providing a good enough seal so my beer goes flat. I have tried replacing all the gaskets and that hasent helped. Any thoughts or ideas on how to fix this problem?

 

[c.n.budz]

Can you find thicker gaskets?

 

[Wing Nut]

I have looked, there seems to only be one size.

 

[mr x]

Bottle carbing? A few more details SVP.

 

[Spunkmeyer]

I have looked, there seems to only be one size.

You could possibly try 2 gaskets stacked to make it thicker... worth a try on at least one bottle to see if it makes a difference.

 

[Wing Nut]

Sorry yes details are in order, I apologise I am not used to posting on these forums. I have bottled two batches in these bottles, the 1st was a Brew House cream ale I primed it with the corn sugar in the kit by making a syrup and mixing it in a primary fermenter before syphoning it into the bottles. The seccond was a apricot wheat, I primed with DME 1 1/4 cups also disolved into a syrup. The bottles seem to be hit or miss as far as carbonation goes. When I close the bottles they all seem to be tight but some dont carbonate. It is only the batches I place in these bottles that have carbonation problems. I am not too sure about placing two gaskets as it might be too much pressure on the swing top, a thinker gasket might work though. Any ideas where to find them?

 

[bradsul]

I had a similar problem with some of mine. I was able to solve it by heating up the gaskets in hot water to soften them up before sanitizing and sealing.

 

[TexLaw]

The whole in the cap where the metal thingy goes may be drilled too large, so the metal thingy doesn't hold the lid down tightly. If that is the case, check with the store where you got them and see if they can get more. That's what my LHBS did, and the lid fit much tighter afterwards.


TL

 

[homebrewer_99]

I have cases of flippies that I got in Germany and I've noticed the soft rubber gaskets are not as good at holding pressure as the harder German rubber ones are.

You could bent the cage a bit to tighten them up when closed.

 

[Flyin' Lion]

While others have addressed the issue with gaskets, the cap itself could be the culprit as well. I have used brand new swing top bottles that came with plastic caps and had the same mixed results you've mentioned. On the other hand, some older swing tops with ceramic tops have performed flawlessly. Something to consider.

 

[Wing Nut]

Good idea, I will do my best to seperate the leakers from the good ones, then I will replace the plastic caps. Just thinking of a way to test the ability of the bottles to hold gas, I was thinking of a pinch of baking soda with a splash of vinegar then capping, Wait over night and then open. That should seperate the bad ones from the good.

 

[scottthorn]

I primed it with the corn sugar in the kit by making a syrup and mixing it in a primary fermenter before syphoning it into the bottles.

It certainly could be the bottles/lids/seals, but could it also be that the priming sugar isn't getting mixed well throughout the entire batch?

You want to avoid stirring your primary as it'll kick the sediment up into solution, and possibly cause oxidation. Not sure how you're adding it.

I boil DME and water then dump that into a bottling bucket. Next I transfer from the primary (or secondary) into the bottling bucket - right on top of the 'syrup'. This allows it to mix thoroughly with the entire 5 gallons.

My guess is that you'd see some bottles that lack carbonation and others with an abundance if this were the case, but it's something to consider...

 

[Revvy]

I'm going to come from a totally different angle...How long are you letting them sit at 70 degrees before you are opening them?

What size flippies are they?

 

[brewt00l]

If you want to eliminate the bottles from the equation, pressure test them with something fizzy like soda and see if they hold pressure (and you can put a balloon over the closed top and see if it inflates as a visual indicator).

 

[Wing Nut]

Well they ceritanly have enough time to sit. This batch was made in sept and sat at room temp for 2 weeks then it went into the cold storage room.
They are 375ml flippies. I have only seen them once for a danish beer in the beer store. As far as my priming technique I do the same I add the syrup to my bucket then add the beer on top. I havent had any issues with carbonation with any of my other batches just the ones that I put in these bottles.

 

[AdamNYK]

WingNut: There are just too many possibilities for why they didn't carbonate. It's likely the gaskets, or the little pre-drilled holes where the arms go, as TexLaw mentioned earlier. I’m sure you did everything else adequately. I’ve run into this problem before too, and every single bottle of beer I’ve made tasted delicious, and was carbonated perfectly, besides the stupid flip-tops.

I've got 12 1L flip-top bottles I've used twice now. The first batch, 7 of the 12 did not carbonate. In the latest batch, I'm batting about .500 so far....2 out of 4 I’ve opened so far were duds. There's too much inconsistency with these things...I'm going to stick with regular bottles and caps, and the big 1/2 gallon growlers from now on.

By the way....anyone have any ideas about how I can get my flat bottles carbonated? I was thinking about re-racking the beer from my flip-tops into regular bottles. Do those carbonation tablets work well, or should I boil a few tbs of priming sugar, and let the yeast do it's thing? If so, I probably need to wait another 3 weeks, eh?

 

[Wing Nut]

I am interested to see what they have to say, right now I have about 40 bottles of my apricot wheat beer. It is very tasty when cabonated. I think I may just end up carefully pouring the batch into a bucket and re priming. This stuff is far too good to waste on bottles that didnt work properly.

 

[VA Brew]

I've had the same problem with liter bottles. The first time i used them carbonation was great. The second time i used them i made a batch and bottled half in the liter bottles and 1/2 in 12 oz bottles and all of the 12 oz bottles were perfect but the liter bottles had no carbonation. I originally thought it was just poor mixing from putting the priming sugar into the bottle bucket and racking beer into it but after reading this i may have to re-evaluate. My bottles were brand new so i'm fairly sure the gaskets are not the problem.

Wish i read this a week again. I have made another batch and bottled mainly in the liter bottles, so i hope they carbonate right.

 

[Revvy]

By the way....anyone have any ideas about how I can get my flat bottles carbonated? I was thinking about re-racking the beer from my flip-tops into regular bottles. Do those carbonation tablets work well, or should I boil a few tbs of priming sugar, and let the yeast do it's thing? If so, I probably need to wait another 3 weeks, eh?

I wouldn't risk oxydation by reracking though, I'd do the carbtabs and maybe sanitize some tinfoil to go around the fliptop...or even some rubberbands and plastic wrap, or little ballons...just to seal them in...

I don't know if you'd have to wait a full 3 weeks or not...your beer definitely won't be green anymore...it may be carbed enough even after the first week....

I'd carb tab them & seal them, then on the 7th day chill one for 2 days and check it...if not quite yet, do it for another week, and check one...until they're ready...

If you decide to try this and seal over the bottles, let me know how it worked and how long it took.....

 

[AdamNYK]

Thanks for the advice...besides the oxidation issue, re-racking them into other bottles would be a pain in the ass, so I think I'll go with the tabs. I'll let you know how I make out.

The tough thing at this point is: Out of my 8 remaining bottles, I'm not sure what ones will be flat, and what ones are fine. Probably better to be safe and drop a carbtab in each and check in a week as you suggest. Once I open each bottle, I'll know which ones were duds...so I'll mark the bottle and try one of the duds. Too bad I have to open some of the OK ones. Darn, I guess I'll have to drink some tonight!!

You don't think dropping a carbtab into one of the bottles that "worked" will cause a bottle bomb, do you? I think I should be fine, except for having some extra fizzy beer.

And "VA Brew".....I definitely don't think it was your mixing process....sounds like it was the same problem Wing Nut and I had. In both instances, everything I capped turned out great. My bottles are brand new too.....so if I hope Revvy's strategy works, and the CO2 isn't leaking out of the pre-drilled holes where the arms go.

Stay tuned.....I'll let you guys know how it goes.

 

[Revvy]

Thanks for the advice...besides the oxidation issue, re-racking them into other bottles would be a pain in the ass, so I think I'll go with the tabs. I'll let you know how I make out.

The tough thing at this point is: Out of my 8 remaining bottles, I'm not sure what ones will be flat, and what ones are fine. Probably better to be safe and drop a carbtab in each and check in a week as you suggest. Once I open each bottle, I'll know which ones were duds...so I'll mark the bottle and try one of the duds. Too bad I have to open some of the OK ones. Darn, I guess I'll have to drink some tonight!!

You don't think dropping a carbtab into one of the bottles that "worked" will cause a bottle bomb, do you? I think I should be fine, except for having some extra fizzy beer.

And "VA Brew".....I definitely don't think it was your mixing process....sounds like it was the same problem Wing Nut and I had. In both instances, everything I capped turned out great. My bottles are brand new too.....so if I hope Revvy's strategy works, and the CO2 isn't leaking out of the pre-drilled holes where the arms go.

Stay tuned.....I'll let you guys know how it goes.

well if you wrap them in tinfoil that'll seal any leaks from the little holes...

If you pop one open and it is carbed and you don't want to drink it, let the co2 vent out for a bit before you add a carb tab to it...That should prevent bottle bombage.....I think.

 

[bradsul]

well if you wrap them in tinfoil that'll seal any leaks from the little holes...

If you pop one open and it is carbed and you don't want to drink it, let the co2 vent out for a bit before you add a carb tab to it...That should prevent bottle bombage.....I think.

If it carbed properly I wouldn't add the carb tab, it will overcarbonate the beer. Just seal it back up again, it won't lose much if you chill the bottles before testing them for carbonation. Just make a mark on them so you know to drink those ones first.

Any one a carb tab gets added too will need to be agitated slightly after capping to rouse the yeast back off the bottom.

 

[AdamNYK]

Awesome guys...thanks for the great advice. Experimentation starts tonight!

 

[homebrewer_99]

One of the earlier comments about the holes in the sides of the bottle where the metal get inserted got me to thinking...if, when you seal it, the snap is somewhat wimpy maybe you should switch a lid from one on another bottle.

 

[AdamNYK]

Phew.....just got done with my carb-tabbing and re-capping.

Out of the 8 bottles left, 3 of them were perfectly carbonated and gave a nice "pop" when I opened them, and the other 5 were duds....flatter than Cameron Diaz! (Although, as an aside, the rest of her is perfect.)

It took about 30-40 minutes to accomplish the task, but here's what I did. One quick note: The pack of carb-tabs reccomends 4 tabs for a 12 oz bottle for "normal carbonation."

1. I boiled all the rubber gaskets. Even on the perfectly carbonated ones, I swapped the gasket for a fresh boiled one after I opened. (I hope this wasn't a dumb move --if it aint broke, I shouldn't have tried to fix it. Oh well.) All bottles I opened were chilled in the fridge overnight.

2. For the 3 carbonated bottles, I dropped in 2 carbtabs each. Remember, the bottles are 1L, so they should be getting approx 11 tabs if starting flat. I figre 2 tabs for the wasted carbonation was good.

3. For the 5 flat bottles, I dropped in 7 tabs each. I don't need my beer supercarbonated, and while not discernable, there was probably already a little carbonation in there. In addition to swapping out the gaskets and metal arms, I also sealed with sanitized foil and a rubber band. Not sure how much the foil and rubber band will help...the boiled gaskets seemed to create a better seal and hopefully did the trick.

4. I put all of them in a rubbermaid bin in case they turn to bottle bombs. I'll probably sh*t my pants tonight if I'm asleep when they start exploding.

Ok...that's it. Going to give it about 7 days and try one of the flat ones. The carbonated ones may not make it past this weekend!

Thanks to everyone for their help. I'll let you know the results.

 

[Revvy]

Adam,

I'm not sure if boiling the gaskets was a good idea...I wonder if that would soften, warp or damage them in some way....if that's what you've done prior that might be the problem you're having...I would just sanitize them with a no-rinse sanitizer (That what I do with the dozen flippies I've managed to acquire, I just soak them in my iodophor.)

Anyone else here know if boiling them is ok to do?

 

[AdamNYK]

I hadn't boiled them prior, so that wasn't my previous problem.

Boiling them was a recommendation from my local homebrew guy. He said it would cause the rubber to expand a little and give me a better seal. Hope he was right....I guess I'll know in a few more days.

 

[AnonyBrew]

Any outcome on this yet? Did your fix work?

Also, did you ever figure out the original cause of the problem?

I use Grolsch bottles and this thread worries me. However, after 3 batches I've only had one non-carbed beer so far and I haven't bothered replacing the original gaskets yet. I assume at some point (maybe after 3 uses) I'll replace them just in case. Until then my fingers are crossed.

 

[AdamNYK]

I did my little experiment 3 days ago....I want to give the beer 3 or 4 more days in the bottle before I open it. I'm actually going to Mexico for work for a few days, but will be back on Sunday. I'll crack open a brew on Sunday and will post to let you guys know how it worked.

Adam

 

[AdamNYK]

Sorry for the delay in posting this guys....but I just got back from Mexico last night.

It worked! I popped open one of my blle 1L flip-top bottles that had previously been flat, and it was perfectly carbonated!

:rockin:

 

[Revvy]

Sorry for the delay in posting this guys....but I just got back from Mexico last night.

It worked! I popped open one of my blle 1L flip-top bottles that had previously been flat, and it was perfectly carbonated!

:rockin:

YAY!!!!!

Glad they came out.

 

[Nerro]

...mods plz delete, accidental double post...

 

[Nerro]

Here in the Netherlands our Grolsch bottles may be a little bit different from yours but I've been using the same bottles for about half a year now, refilling them every month or so. I've never had anything go flat so far.

A good idea might be to put to the tops into a hot sulphite solution (completely disassembled of course) I always do this to avoid contaminations and so far it seems to have worked a charm. I sterilize the actual bottles by cleaning them with hot water and soap and then heating them in out hot air oven at about 175°C for an hour.

Hope this is useful information