Flavor change between bottles.

[adamdillabo]

Brewed a Cali common a few weeks ago. Tried one after a week and a half. It was amazing. Fully carbed. Clean tasting with a lot of hop flavor and aroma. It was so perfect I put a few more in the fridge.

Next ones were not so great. It's a flavor a lot of my lighter beers get. I don't know how do describe the flavor. I'll toss a few more in the fridge and really try to nail it down for you. The strangest thing for me is the complete lack of all hop flavor and smell. Anyone could pick out the liberty hops in the first one i tried.

I only have one thought on why this could happen. I believe this is the beer I started to bottle. Maybe one or two. Then thought I should give it a small very slow stir. Then bottled the rest. Then the first one just happened to be one that got into the fridge.
I know most say oxidation is wet card board and I wouldn't say that's it but can even slight levels ruin a beer?

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

I have read (but have no experience) that oxidation can indeed cause loss of hops aroma and flavor, also loss of malt flavor and body.

There are also infections that could cause your problems I believe. But, those infections would probably cause over carbonation as well.

Hopefully someone who can help better will pop in....

 

[cyanmonkey]

How many have you tried? Doubt it's an infection. How long was it in primary?

The reason it's better to age in the fermenter than the bottle is less variation from bottle to bottle.

Crown caps?

 

[adamdillabo]

3 weeks in primary if not longer. O2 adsorbing crown caps.
I've tried maybe 6 of them. Only the first one had the amazing hop flavor.

 

[Skiffy]

All grain or extract? What's your water source and if all grain do you treat it with anything.

 

[adamdillabo]

AG BIAB. Tap water. Campden tablet crushed up and sprinkled in till I couldn't smell any chlorine. 1/4 teaspoon gypsum.

 

[CJ-3]

Stirring very gently ti mix in the priming sugar should not cause an issue. With that being said a vigorous stir or creating a whirlpool can indeed lead to oxidation.

 

[Skiffy]

Do you calculate or check mash pH?

 

[adamdillabo]

There was no whirlpool and no splashing in the surface.

 

[adamdillabo]

Do you calculate or check mash pH?

Nothing too scientific. I work on the average for the city water report last year and what little I have read on line to ball park my gypsum addition.

 

[adamdillabo]

My mash temps may have been high. I noticed my alcohol thermometer was reading 216 at boiling so I got s new one. At room temp it's showing a 3-4 degree difference.

 

[andrewmaixner]

You could be experiencing differences in perception for dozens of reasons, also. Temperature, bottle vs. glass, mental expectations, the food you are eating before / with it, etc.
Sometimes a pour from my keggerator seems to taste different from one day to the next, and there's no variation in the beer there.

 

[xpops]

Nothing too scientific. I work on the average for the city water report last year and what little I have read on line to ball park my gypsum addition.

i had always done the same, but then i started to use bru'n water as i was still missing consistency, and suspected my water. I discovered even beers with dark grains was not producing enough acidic levels, and very far off in my light beers.

bru'n water and phosphoric has started to produce better and more consistent beers.

Also, campden will remove chlorimines, but not chlorine. either let your water sit out over night, or boil it before hand. that will wreck your flavour too.

good luck!

 

[cyanmonkey]

I don't think mash ph or mash temp are at issue here. It could be the first bottle you drank had some hop matter from transfer into your bottling bucket. It difficult to say, really.

Is the issue just the bottle to bottle variance, or are you asking why it doesn't taste as good as you had hoped?

What about carbonation? Is it consistent from bottle to bottle?

 

[Skiffy]

I believe campden does remove chlorine as well as chloramine.

I wouldn't be so quick to rule out mash pH, especially with the red flag of "I get this flavor in my lighter beers". Although, it could be anything, mash pH can cause a number of minor issues which are tough to nail down, especially with hop flavors in my experience.

 

[cyanmonkey]

...especially with the red flag of "I get this flavor in my lighter beers."

I missed that part. Still, though, is his question about bottle to bottle variation or brew day?

 

[Skiffy]

True. I interpreted it as bottles changing over time, first ones good and next ones not so good, but op might have meant bottle to bottle variation even at the same time

 

[adamdillabo]

The first bottle was more carbonated than I thought it would be after only a week and a half. Boarder line over carbed but I poured aggressively. The next one I tried a day later was what you would expect for less than two weeks. It's about three weeks now and the one I had last night had proper carbonation. But still didn't have that crisp hop aroma and smooth taste.

I don't think it has to do with that one being drank first. It was just coincidence. I don't believe 24 hours would make the rest go to ****. Don't even know if that one was bottled first. Before I stirred it up.

 

[Skiffy]

Were they in the fridge for the same amount of time? That factor can change the carbonation in the beer and has changed my perception of the taste. I'm hunting down a seemingly similar problem for making a pale ale with my water. I cracked open a bottle and thought it smelled and tasted great. A few days later it tasted dull and I was searching for the aroma. I would certainly look into using a mash ph calculator if you haven't yet as I added some acid to my last batch (I didn't have a good method for measuring the amount of citric acid put in so I may have been a little off) and it definitely brought me closer

 

[adamdillabo]

Yeah I really need to get my water together. Maybe I'll do RO and build my own.

 

[Skiffy]

I think the experiment is worth it. I recommend a simple pale ale with a light grain bill or even a smash recipe. Add enough late hops so you know if you are missing it. Keep og and ibus down and it will be a cheap beer that you can turn around quickly.

Before brew day use bru'n water to calculate your mash ph and go from there.

 

[adamdillabo]

Should I start with RO or deionized?

I think I'll do another Oberon clone. I have the hops and specialty grains. Just need the 2 row and wheat. Then I can compare to the one I brewed Sunday.

Water may play a big part but it wouldn't make a difference in the same batch. It's got to be oxidized. I'm bottling two beers tonight. I'm not going to stir at all. Just a nice whirlpool when I siphon. If it's not completely mixed so be it.

Really need to take a bottle to a brewery to get a pros take on it

 

[Skiffy]

Not sure about the water type to use. Certainly could be oxidation and there's no reason to not minimize it as much as possible. I still wouldn't rule out mash pH unless you try two beers side by side and they taste different.

Do you dunk or "fly" sparge?