'Flash Brewing'? This looks interesting!

[madscientist451]

I'm not here to change anyone's opinion about the kits.

That’s cool, I’m not really up for changing anything about anyone at all, but….if the truth is: A similar beer can be made for less $ with extract and concentrated hops, I’m going to spread that info to anyone interested….

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Back on the 9th ...

After 6 days, there was some carbonation (which I was hoping to see). Basement ambient temperature is currently 60 - 62F. I'll open the 2nd sample bottle next weekend (as planned).

... and I opened the 2nd sample bottle last night. After two weeks conditioning at 60F - 62F with the original yeast, carbonation level was good. I'll let it condition for a couple of weeks before focusing on the flavor aspects (although early trials with flavor salt additions hint that adding a little added Na, maybe 10ppm, may be helpful).

eta: This was the Irish Red kit where I used Cascade & Centennial rather than Willamette in an attempt to make an American Amber rather than an Irish Red. It's plausible that the mineral content for the other kits DME is similar - but I'm open to the possibility that it varies between the various types of the kit DME.

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

So I conclude that the Flash Brew is a decent beer that roughly half of experienced beer drinkers could confuse with either the All Grain kit or the real thing from Bells.

Very cool testing! Thanks for sharing!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'll let it condition for a couple of weeks before focusing on the flavor aspects (although early trials with flavor salt additions hint that adding a little added Na, maybe 10ppm, may be helpful).

Here's a simple way to exBEERiment with table salt (NaCl) & a glass of beer. Assume a bottle of sea salt with a grinder. Pour a glass of beer. Add "a half spin" of salt from the bottle. For my pallet, it makes a slight positive change in the beer.

 

[mashdar]

I started a Flash red ale. The basement has been ~63F. I used distilled water this time to give it it's best chance to shine.

I started spunding at ~70hr after pitch. I'm on day 8, and the pressure is still steadily climbing. It's at 15.1 psi, +0.9 psi vs yesterday.

I'm surprised at how slowly it's going. I guess it doesn't like low 60s. I can't find a published temperature range, though. (Maybe on the now-recycled instructions?)

edit: Worth mentioning the instructions say 10-14 days. Maybe I'm just spoiled.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm surprised at how slowly it's going. I guess it doesn't like low 60s.

caution: this is a sample size of 2. So your (and my) milage may vary over time.

About a month ago (Oct 13th), I brewed a 2.5 gal batch of the Irish Red Ale using the kit DME & yeast. Ambient temperature was around 65F. Wort went to 71F early on the 15th. Waited almost three weeks for krausen to fall - ended up doing a short cold crash to finish that. Bottles carbonated in about a week at ~ 60F. 1st bottle(s) suggest a little more time for conditioning.

Last week (Nov 10), I used the other half of the kit yeast with Muntons extra light DME. Pitched yeast with wort at 68F; ambient temperature was 61F. Temperature inside fermenter was 65F for 4 days, then dropped to 61F this morning (ambient is 60F). Looks like I'll bottle condition this batch in the 59F - 60F range.

How low can it go? So far, a 60F basement (with no temperature control) appears to be fine. Assume 2 weeks fermenting and two weeks bottle conditinong. I may put one of the IPA kits in the brewing backlog for early next year - as the basement will be heading towards 55F.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Has anyone that's done one of these flash brewing kits, been brave enough to fill a clear bottle, and confirm that these hops cannot be light-struck?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

let's continue down a side topic ...

Most important in my opinion is the proprietary extract which is not simply Light, Pilsner, Amber, Dark, Bavarian Wheat and Dried Rice. etc.

it sounds like they make a specific grain bill then concentrate that into spraymalt to give you several different styles rather than just the range of DME available now.

Williams Brewing (HomeBrewTalk sponsor) makes a number of style specific LMEs for their kits - and also offers those LMEs "à la carte". My (limited) experience with these LME products is that they can deliver them fresh (and I can store them properly).

Will MoreBeer do something similar with their Flash Brewing DME products?

I hope so.

but all together the flash idea is new IMO

and IMO, "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

But, as always "time will tell".

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm surprised at how slowly it's going. I guess it doesn't like low 60s. I can't find a published temperature range, though. (Maybe on the now-recycled instructions?)

edit: Worth mentioning the instructions say 10-14 days. Maybe I'm just spoiled.

Over in a different topic thread (link), I brewed a Muntons DME IPA using the kit yeast. After ten days, it was at 80% AA and two weeks, it's at 84% AA. I'll give it another week (three weeks from pitching yeast) before taking another hydrometer sample.

FWIW: yeast was pitched into 68F wort with a basement temperature in the 60F-62F range; no temperature control; not pressure fermented.

 

[mashdar]

Yeah, at 15 days at ~63F, I am still suspecting some minor activity. I'm not motivated enough to take readings, so it'll sit another week.

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

Has anyone that's done one of these flash brewing kits, been brave enough to fill a clear bottle, and confirm that these hops cannot be light-struck?

I didn't use clear bottles, but I did ferment a batch in an uncovered clear Fermonster sitting on a table in my brewery and there was no skunking.

 

[mashdar]

OK, "red" ale now on tap. It is beer.

Prior to my thoughts, a few caveats:

1. This time I used distilled water with no adjustments.
2. I fermented for 18 days in a keg at 63F, spunding to a target 2.5vol after 3 days. I put it in the serving fridge after 18 days, and tasted it three days later. Took longer than I expected. Next time at this temperature, I wouldn't spund until day 5-7.
3. Serving from fermenter. Obviously not standard practice for these kits.
4. I made a half batch. I weighed everything fairly meticulously.

Tasting notes:

• Appearance: Much less head than the pale ale. Does not stick around. Not much lacing. The color is a dark gold. Nothing red about this beer. I expect a red to be ~10-15 SRM, but this is closer to 7-8. No roasted barley hues that I can make out. edit: Second pour had slightly more head. Not sure what was up with the first one.
• Aroma: Faint rubbing alcohol and earthy hop. A touch of sweet malt. Not much going on in the nose.
• Flavor: Not much in the flavor department. Ever so slightly tart and boozy. If I bought a bottle of this, I'd figure it had sat on the shelf for a year. No oxidation flavors, but not much of anything. If I focus really hard on the aftertaste, I get a hint of ... vienna? Maybe a little acetaldehyde.
• Mouthfeel: Fine. Maybe ever so slightly syrupy.
• Overall: It's drinkable. I don't find much to love. I think a steeped* bit of roasted barley would potentially make this an OK beer. This is a bit of a blank canvas. (*Would this require boiling to avoid contamination? IDK.)

edit: I feel like roasted barley should be pretty sterile due to the roasting process. I wonder if you could "dry-malt" the beer, adding an ounce of grain on day 3. I'd welcome some extra tannins if it made the beer more interesting.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The idea of adding pasteurized (or boiled) steeped wort is discussed in books by Gordon Strong and Chris Colby.

Cold steeping tends to mute flavors.

Boiling the steeped wort will kill off any 'nasties' that may be unintentionally added between the roasting of the malts and the steeping of the malts.

The risk / reward trade off for not boiling a steeped wort is yours to make.

Personally, I see no reward (to not boiling the steeped wort) for the additional risk.

 

[IslandLizard]

Personally, I see no reward (to not boiling the steeped wort) for the additional risk.

Steeping dark roasted malts at 130-140°F for 30-60 minutes, then heating to 150-160F for 10-15 minutes should pasteurize that dark wort enough to kill off any clinging nasties.

Although the difference can be subtle, I prefer the flavor from dark malts that were steeped, then pasteurized, over including them in the mash and boiling the resulting dark wort for an hour or longer.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

so 40 to 75 minutes plus time for heating (70°F to 140°F & 130°F to 160°F) and cooling to 70°F.

With that amount of time, one could do a short partial boil and cool using a"no chill" approach:

• steep from ambient to 160°F while heating the water to a boil
• add DME, maybe some hops, maybe boil some for hop bitterness / flavor
• hop stand?
  • use chilled water to drop wort temp to 170F, add hops
  • heat to only 180F, add DME (wort drops to 170F) add hops
• move wort to 'no chill' container

At this point, brew day duration depends on how fast can one heat water.

 

[rmchair]

I havent bought a kit yet, but alternatively did the purchase the pinter deal- (2 kits and pinter for $50 shipped).
The pinter hardware is really incredibly ingenious for simplicity. The two pinter ipas i tried are interesting yet a bit malty for my liking as i like session hazies, and the kits are spendy.
So Id like to use a flash kit in the pinter next. The pinter dry hop uses a liquid bottle attachment. I could reuse the bottle, but the issue is finding a cost effective liquid dry hop. YVH has one but im not sure its cost effective. They also have some new fangled spray-in-the-glass concentrates that look interesting.

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

I havent bought a kit yet, but alternatively did the purchase the pinter deal- (2 kits and pinter for $50 shipped).
The pinter hardware is really incredibly ingenious for simplicity. The two pinter ipas i tried are interesting yet a bit malty for my liking as i like session hazies, and the kits are spendy.
So Id like to use a flash kit in the pinter next. The pinter dry hop uses a liquid bottle attachment. I could reuse the bottle, but the issue is finding a cost effective liquid dry hop. YVH has one but im not sure its cost effective. They also have some new fangled spray-in-the-glass concentrates that look interesting.

I just opened my Pinter a few days ago and had the same thought -- particularly if MoreBeer starts doing smaller Flash Brewing kit sizes this could be a pretty killer combo for quick brewing.

The other potential challenge with the Pinter might be that with the Flash Brewing kits you dump the pellet hops right into the fermenter (at least the two Flash Brewing kits I did came with pellet cryo hops in addition to the liquid hop extract), but maybe the hops would mostly come out when you undock. I'd just be a bit worried about hop matter clogging the tap if it doesn't all come out when you undock the Pinter.

Only one way to find out.

 

[rmchair]

Yeah im concerned as well about the hop matter getting into the dock or clogging. The time period is so short it would probably be okay, except for potential tap clogging. Maybe add hops in a muslin sock attached to the far end of the pinter?

 

[mashdar]

Are there tea bags you can pack at home with hops + float?

 

[Franktalk]

I read this thread to see if this new way to brew is okay. After reading about all the hacks and work-arounds, I'm convinced that I might as well keep brewing the "old fashioned" way. It hasn't failed me yet.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Over in /r/homebrewing, there have been a number of topics where people were enjoying the short brew day and the good beer that the kits makes.

As I mentioned above, I split an Irish Red kit. Brewed half following the the process (but did substitute Cascade for Willamette); and used the other half to explore the individual ingredients. Short brew day and good beer. What's wrong with that?

I like the idea of making a 2nd beer while waiting for the mash to finish on the 1st beer.

 

[BrewZer]

Are there tea bags you can pack at home with hops + float?

https://www.amazon.com/200pcs-Dispo...keywords=empty+tea+bags&qid=1738944108&sr=8-6

 

[Franktalk]

Over in /r/homebrewing, there have been a number of topics where people were enjoying the short brew day and the good beer that the kits makes.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that no one should use it. It just didn't as easy as its name would suggest. If it works for you, go for it!

 

[mac_1103]

It just didn't as easy as its name would suggest.

The fact that some people have decided to experiment with the ingredients in the kits doesn't mean that using the kits as directed isn't every bit as easy as the name suggests.

 

[Franktalk]

Point taken.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It just didn't [seem] as easy as its name would suggest.

If it's hard to add ingredients to the boil kettle, these kits will be hard as well.

After reading about all the hacks and work-arounds, I'm convinced that I might as well keep brewing the "old fashioned" way.

I'm not here to change your mind.

---

I found that the information that MoreBeer provides for these kits is both fair and accurate. I used the instructions and made some good beer.

I also did some ingredient "hacks" recipes to learn more about the ingredients. Most of that information is in a different topic - but I've likely stopped talking about what I find due to LLMs 'vacuuming up' information and and some of those LLMs wanting to make a profit by selling it back to us.

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

I just came across this video on YouTube and that's what he does -- hops in small tea bags, and you just throw them in with the yeast before you seal it up:


So you can't control the timing of the dry hopping but in that sense it's identical to what you do with the Flash Brewing kits, and according to some of this guy's other videos, he gets good results.

I also read the suggestion somewhere that you could save one of the hop extract bottles from a Pinter kit, do your own hop tincture with vodka, and add the tincture later in the fermentation process.

Some interesting things to try.

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

Thought this was an interesting idea too -- if you want to add something at the beginning of fermentation that might clog up any of the machinery and it doesn't need to be in there after fermentation is done, put it in the dock:

 

[Bewmsn1980]

I just got my Pinter 3 kit. Did the deal on Facebook

I just came across this video on YouTube and that's what he does -- hops in small tea bags, and you just throw them in with the yeast before you seal it up:


So you can't control the timing of the dry hopping but in that sense it's identical to what you do with the Flash Brewing kits, and according to some of this guy's other videos, he gets good results.

I also read the suggestion somewhere that you could save one of the hop extract bottles from a Pinter kit, do your own hop tincture with vodka, and add the tincture later in the fermentation process.

Some interesting things to try.

Thanks for the video. I just got my Pinter 3 and started brewing my “FourPure Citrus IPA Remixed Pinter Pack” yesterday. I was looking for Pinter Hacks to try out other beers without being limited to just what Pinter offers.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I recently ordered / brewed the "I Heart IPA" kit. I split it in two (as my equipment is 2.5 gal). Some observations (sample size of two):

• a 3 gal fermenter is a little small for the 2.5 gal batch (start with a blow-off tube)
• the yeast seems to work well at 60F, but won't start at 55F.
• pitching warm (70F) then moving into the 55F area seems to work
• splitting a 7# bag of DME takes a little forethought and a little practice
• for those curious about who might be making the DME:
  • the malts used to make the DME are printed on the bag label (sample size of 2)
  • if one heats just DME from about 120F to a boil, flakes/coagulation (similar to this (link)) appear
  • at "what temperature" and "how much" varies based on brand (sample size of 5 brands) but seems to be consistent within a brand

 

[mac_1103]

PSA: Currently you can buy the Irish Red and get the Blonde Ale for half off.

 

[drewu]

I've done two Morebeer Flash Brews now, and both have tasted too sweet.

I'm pretty new to homebrew so I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if this is just how they taste. The aroma is sweet too like a strong citrusy smell. Both beers have attenuated well. This last one was the Cali Mountain Pale Ale, and I also added a pound of Dextrose to try to boost the alcohol up, and added more hops because I'm making this more of an IPA, but here's where the strange part starts:

Hydrometer at start: 1.050
Hydrometer at end: 1.007
Which is 5.6% and 85% apparent attenuation.

The kit claims it should end at 5.6% *without* the pound of Dextrose I added, so that's weird. I was expecting something like 6.5% ABV with that in there. My fermenting was started at 68F and dropped down to 64 over a few days. Everything was temperature controlled in a fermzilla with a hop bong on top, I added just the 1oz of Cascade on day 3, and dumped trub on day 6 via the bottom airlock. When I got down to 1.008 on day 9 I boosted the temp up to 68F for 4 days for the diacetyl rest, and then down to 62F, when I dry hopped 1oz citra, 1oz mosaic, and 2oz nelson via the hop bong for no o2 ingress. It's now day 17 and it's down to 1.007 and I figure it should be done now, but I've got this same sweet smell and taste and I'm pretty frustrated. The water wasn't treated other than running through a filter, and the salts here are very minimal.

The first Flash Brew kit I made I just followed the directions and didn't do anything different and it still came out with the same sweet taste and smell, even without my Dextrose doping. I've heard people talk about a "homebrew taste" before and maybe that's what this is? In any case, how do I get rid of that?

 

[mac_1103]

I've done two Morebeer Flash Brews now, and both have tasted too sweet...

How did you get an accurate OG if you followed the instructions and just dumped everything into the fementer? Hard to imagine a beer with a FG of 1.007 tasting too sweet. Cascade hops in the fermenter might explain a citrusy aroma.

 

[drewu]

How did you get an accurate OG if you followed the instructions and just dumped everything into the fementer? Hard to imagine a beer with a FG of 1.007 tasting too sweet. Cascade hops in the fermenter might explain a citrusy aroma.

I have both a RAPT pill in there, and added co2 pressure and pulled a sample out via a ball lock tap. Both the pill and the hydrometer agreed. My first flash brew was the "I heart IPA" that used 100% Centennial, and that also had this same smell/taste.

 

[mac_1103]

Neither a pill nor a hydrometer will give an accurate reading if the wort isn't homogeneous. Hence my question about following the instructions to just dump everything in. Maybe you completely dissolved the DME and sugar and mixed your wort really well instead, but being able to just dump everything in is kinda the whole point of these kits.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The kit claims it should end at 5.6%

6# DME at 42 PPG in 5 gal of water is OG 50 (6 * 42 / 5). If the yeast produces 85% attenuation, FG is 7; and ABV is about 5.6%.

To make an OG 50 wort using 6# DME and 1#, one needs about 6 gal of water.

 

[drewu]

Neither a pill nor a hydrometer will give an accurate reading if the wort isn't homogeneous.

Yeah, that was a challenge. I waited a day and gave it a good swirl before taking that first reading. It's possible it would have been higher if checked a day earlier if it was all well mixed but I assumed it was correct because it always matched the reading from the pill.

To make an OG 50 wort using 6# DME and 1#, one needs about 6 gal of water.

I hear you, and that makes sense, but I definitely only put 5 gallons in there. Before I used the fermzilla for the first time I measured out 5 gallons and made my own markings on the side so I was sure it was accurate.

 

[mac_1103]

It's possible it would have been higher if checked a day earlier if it was all well mixed but I assumed it was correct because it always matched the reading from the pill.

The gravity reading may have been correct. But if you had 6 lbs of DME and 1 lb of sugar in 5 gallons, then it definitely wasn't original.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@drewu: check the Flash Brewing FAQ for some statements from MoreBeer on how fast this yeast works. If it's three days from OG to FG; and you took an SG measurement a day after brewing, ...

 

[mac_1103]

My first flash brew was the "I heart IPA" that used 100% Centennial, and that also had this same smell/taste.

Centennial is even more citrusy than cascade.