'Flash Brewing'? This looks interesting!

[IrondaleBrewing]

Another interesting MoreBeer video -- tl;dw they submitted one of these beers (oddly, they don't say which one in the video) in a homebrew competition and scored a 34.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Partial scoresheet at 0:28. looks like NHC regional at Indianapolis IN; pale ale category.

 

[Bassman2003]

Does that speak more to the validity of competitions or the quality of the flash brews?

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

Does that speak more to the validity of competitions or the quality of the flash brews?

Ha! Fair point. I'm kegging today so I'll find out first hand in a week or so!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Does that speak more to the validity of competitions or the quality of the flash brews?

That is a can of worms! This year I got a 18 point difference between comps on a beer that was bottled and shipped on the same day. In 2023, my scores from NHC were some that I question the most. But hopefully, a 34 score shows that the beer was reasonably well brewed and reasonably to style.

Pale Ale is a flexible category, so I could see a simple extract recipe with some dry hops doing well. I used to make 1 gallon single hop "no-boil" extract beers following the Basic Brewing process. I suspect some of those would to okay as a Pale Ale in a competition (but would lose to the IPAs that tend to win the Pale Ale category). Other styles might be harder to pull off with the Flash process.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Does that speak more to the validity of competitions or the quality of the flash brews?

I'm not convinced it's reasonable, fair, or truly funny to question the quality of NHC judges to question the quality of the kit. Yes, additional data points are needed. Yes, the results will likely depend more on the "archer" than the "arrow".

---

I'm going to "close out" on this topic, other than reading replies from those who are brewing kits and who provide their personal opinions. but first ...

A simple application of "Palmer's 5 priorities" will show the strengths of these kits for those starting out. Intermediate brewers can expand the list to 7 priorities ("water & oxygen") to find areas for process improvement.

As for "single dimensional flavor" - T90 (non-cryo) hops and some of the newer hop oil products (Annie Johnson over at CB&B has been using them for a couple of years in some of her extract beers) are an obvious way provide additional flavors that can't be achieved with single cryo hop recipes.

The future of HomeBrewTalk could include many years of "kit" hacks discussion, assuming HomeBrewTalk can put beers, made a decade ago with stale extract, in the past.

The hobby isn't dead (yet). It (may have) came back to life from an (mostly) unexpected source.

 

[FunCat1828]

I ordered a couple of these kits myself. The Sculpin and the red ale. I'll likely get them going this weekend alongside the other all grain beers I am brewing.

I wanted to test them out, but also I wanted to get more beers on tap ahead of a party, this was a quick way to get that done for someone that's been away from the hobby for a while.

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

I did a compilation video of the fermentation process at various stages as well as what it looks like after cold crashing for 4 days (was only intending on 3, but had some stuff come up), and did a quick taste after I got it kegged. My initial reaction is it's pretty good!

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks for the follow up. Glad it worked out well. The color does look pretty light!

 

[fluketamer]

that beer looks really great for 10 mins of brewing. if it even tastes decent its worth it.

 

[BrewZer]

First glass report on the hefeweizen:

Note that I rolled the bottle on the counter, but didn't shake it to fully rouse the yeast. There was a considerable layer of yeast left in the bottle -- that stuff is sticky!

Carbing nicely after 1 week. Color is true to style, aroma is bready with notes of clove and banana. White, clumpy head was thin-to-medium and held up for about 5 minutes. First taste is biscuit with banana and spice. Good mouthfeel, middle taste is fairly neutral, and a touch of tartness in the finish. Reminds me of Bavarian weizens I've had in Germany.

For what I paid and how long it took, I'd say it's an economic success. Kudos to MoreBeer for thinking this one up!

Next report after bottle #2 next week.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I have not watched it yet, but MoreBeer put out a Q&A on Flash Brewing a few days ago.

 

[BrewZer]

Bottle #2: Very pleasant hefeweizen! Not much head in this bottle, but the flavor is authentic and true to other hefeweizens I've had. Looked very clear in the bottle before fridging, but clouded a bit after cooling to ~ 45 F. Smells like a hefe, looks like a hefe, tastes like a hefe.

I guess it's a hefe.

My opinion remains unchanged: if you want a decent hefeweizen with half the work, the MoreBeer Flash Brewing Hefeweizen kit is a reasonable path to success. Sure, you could brew it yourself for about 1/2 the cost, but that 10-minute mix day versus the 4-hour brew day is pretty appealing and could easily justify the additional money.

This will likely be the last report on this project from me unless I run into situations like ropey pours or mysterious flavors.

 

[DevilsCups]

Thanks for the updates!

Just ordered up the Citra Session kit to give it a try for myself. It will work perfectly to fill the gap between batches for me when I can't spend 5-6 hours brewing.

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

I made the I Heart IPA kit today and took a quick video of it.


I took @BrewZer 's suggestion and threw an iSpindel in this batch to track what the temp does over the course of fermentation. OG is 1.01 according to the iSpindel. So, uh, I guess now we know what the gravity reading sitting on top of a mountain of Flash Brewing Malt is.

I still need to do a tasting video of the Citra Session Pale Ale but I've been drinking it pretty regularly and it's a tasty, easy drinking beer. Depending on how the I Heart IPA goes I can see having these kits in the pipeline semi-regularly. Can't beat getting 5 gallons of beer out of less than 10 minutes of work!

 

[DevilsCups]

Update on my Citra Session kit : Put it all together Saturday evening. I fermented this in a 6 gallon Torpedo MegaMouth keg that I modified the lid for (added a thermowell and a 2" triclamp ferrule). This 'extract' certainly does go in as a big lump lol. I went against the advice slightly and gave it a subtle stir, just to make sure it was all saturated before topping off with the 2 gallons of water. I used straight RO water for this batch.

Fermentation was going by the next morning. I did drop a RAPT Pill into mine. The pill isn't really all that accurate as far as measurements go, but very good with velocity. Interestingly enough it showed 1.057 from the start. No weird readings. Fermented at 72ºF with temp control keeping it steady. After 3 days it's settling down and reading 1.020 at the moment, and I believe that's as far as it will go, for an as-advertised 4.9%/5.0% ABV. I tried to catch the tail end to spund this batch for some carbonation, and it's currently sitting at 72ºf and 20psi.

Either the RAPT Pill reads out of calibration for me, or they did intend the kit to end higher in OG for some body. We'll see when I read with my refrac!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm going to "close out" on this topic, other than ...

... Flash Brewing with Chris Graham [President of MoreBeer]– BeerSmith Podcast #309.

 

[DevilsCups]

Update on my batch - The RAPT Pill slowwwwwwly crawled down to a reading of 1.017/1.018 FG and has been pretty steady there. Glad I didn't crash early. Going to give it another day or two and hope to have it in a keg and tapped by this weekend. Still sitting at 20psi and 72ºF. Samples taste clean and pleasant, after a bit of acetaldehyde note very early on. Stay tuned.

 

[DevilsCups]

Kegged last night and gave it a first taste. Still needs to carb and drop a bit more brite (maybe 60% carbed at the moment).

Impressions? Impressed. It's pretty much as expected for a sessionable beer at 4.9% or so. Cake and trub in the fermenter was much smaller than all-grain batches. Minimal malt character and some nice, subtle hop notes. Yeast character seems pretty clean, but there's still some in solution, so I'll wait a bit to see what this really tastes like.

I can certainly recommend and will be mixing these in now and again when I need a full keg and don't have time. I think the one thing that MoreBeer could do better with is explaining how the flash 'extract' is boiled and whirlpooled. The cost is a bit high relatively speaking, and I think going into the extract process a bit more could help justify to some people, as without that it's a kit with extract, 2oz of Cryo hops and a pack of yeast. Minor gripe though!

 

[rednhez]

Can’t wait to give this a try!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Anybody giving the Irish Red a try? I notice that MoreBeer has put out a few new options, but still in the pale colored and hoppy category (IPA, and Pale Ale).

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

 

[mashdar]

Even the Irish red is a bit high ABV and IBU at 5.8% and 30.

I wonder if this is due to how different recipes have panned out, or just following the market. Maybe both?

 

[mashdar]

I bought the "mountain" pale kit on sale just to hop on the band wagon. Decided to do half at a time in a keg. Too bad there aren't smaller sized kits.

I forgot what a sticky and tedious afair measuring DME can be. The rest of the ingredients were easy to split. The hop shot required a steady hand, but the graduated syringe makes measuring a breeze. Hops and yeast got vacuum re-sealed.

I used 2.5 gal of filtered tap water, 1/2 kmeta tab, and the kit ingredients. Gave it a swirl, sealed the keg, and set a spunding valve wide open on the "out" post.

Went to bed 6 hours later with no sign of life.

Did you catch it? I woke up to 2.5 gal of nice smelling beer on the floor. Spunding valve goes on the gas post...

I had to move about 200lbs of workout weights, 6 grain buckets, a table, a desk, a dehumidifier, 5 kegs, a bed frame, etc, and wipe/hose down most of the same. Mopping the unsealed concrete slab with a towel was not fun.

2 hours later I mixed the other 2.5gal of the kit and put the (thoroughly cleaned) spund on the correct post.

edit: I will say, if I had to learn a hard lesson, I'm glad I did it with a half batch of a no-boil kit. : )

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... Flash Brewing with Chris Graham [President of MoreBeer]– BeerSmith Podcast #309.

I am going to mention this episode again, with an emphasis on the section starting at about 21:15 (experienced brewers with negative kit hack feedback) - since listening to the podcast, I read a blog post (not a forum post) where blogger made one of these mistakes and blamed the DME for the off flavor.

First experience report, at about 21:25 (in the podcast) was treating tap water (campden tablet): "it did not make a good beer" (metallic flavors).

 

[CascadesBrewer]

First experience report, at about 21:25 (in the podcast) was treating tap water (campden tablet): "it did not make a good beer" (metallic flavors).

Not Flash Brewing but...I have been treating my brewing water with OxBlox 3D ("blend of gallotannins, ascorbic acid, and metabisulphite"). The recommended dosage rate is 0.2 to 0.4 g per gallon. In theory, it might reduce hot size oxidation, but at a minimum it should remove the chlorine and chloramines from my tap water. When I used it at the 0.2 g rate for a batch of hop water (not boiled or heated, just dry hopped at room temp) it ended up with a strong "campden tablet" tasted. I ended up dumping that batch. I have been using it at a much lower dose in hop water since (I don't have notes with me on the dosage).

Bottled water is an option (though lugging home 5 gallons of water might offset the ease of a "easy 10 minute brew"). For tap water that is not boiled, I wonder if just using a low dosage of metabisulfite would work (maybe the 1 tablet per 20 gals dosage). Ascorbic Acid is also supposed to remove chlorine and chloramine. I am not sure what dosage is needed, but I have read that very little Ascorbic Acid is needed.

I will add the podcast to my queue.

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

First experience report, at about 21:25 (in the podcast) was treating tap water (campden tablet): "it did not make a good beer" (metallic flavors).

I was listening to that in my car and the second he said it I yelled "But you're not boiling it!"

 

[mashdar]

I am going to mention this episode again, with an emphasis on the section starting at about 21:15 (experienced brewers with negative kit hack feedback) - since listening to the podcast, I read a blog post (not a forum post) where blogger made one of these mistakes and blamed the DME for the off flavor.

First experience report, at about 21:25 (in the podcast) was treating tap water (campden tablet): "it did not make a good beer" (metallic flavors).

I'm with the interviewer in being skeptical. Sulfites are in all kinds of stuff at much higher levels without adding off flavors. Some yeast strains throw more sulfite than I added. I'll report back, though.

edit: Don't get me wrong; I'm sure using tap water can absolutely wreck the beer. I just don't think it was SO3. And not boiling could absolutely play into it.

 

[Snuffy]

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It seems odd that MoreBeer could have batches of a custom wort created for each recipe then have it dried and still sell it for a reasonable price. Maybe they plan to do enough volume to make this work though.

Heck, if they really want to shortcut, why not add yeast to pre-hopped dry ingredients and make it a true "Just add water" deal?

@Snuffy: NB, back in the 2017 - 2018 NB (under ZX Ventues owership) timeframe tried that. At the time, Muntons offered "hopped" DME products (maybe Muntons still makes these products, but I haven't seen these products in USA based online stores for a while).

In that time frame (2017), HomeBrewTalk was still deeply into "extract is always darker than expected" as well as "extract twang /1/" - when in reality, the problem was mostly stale LME. The combination of Basic Brewing Radio episodes (late 2005) and some classic BYO / Chris Colby (2014-ish) made it obvious how to detect stale product. So at that time, there was at least a 3 to 5 year lag between 'best practices' and 'often repeated forum wisdom' when brewing with "extract". I suspect the lag, in 2024, is still around 3 years.

• /1/ back in 2017, the definition of "extract twang" was that "twang" one gets with brewing with 'extract'. Not exactly helpful. OTOH, the BBR episodes in 2005 were helpful with specific off flavors - and, in the end, ended up being related to stale LME.

So "forum wisdom" tends to lag the "leading edge" of ingredients and processes.

Which is "ok" if one is getting the beer that one wants to drink.

But "not so OK" if a business (or perhaps an association) wants to move the hoby forward.

---

About a year ago, there was topic here at HomeBrewTalk that speculated as to where Williams and MoreBeer where getting their LME products that offered comparative advantages over the traditional "pilsen", "golden light", "pale ale", "amber", "traditional dark" products that many online stores offer.

MoreBeer is being quiet (rightfully so) with regard to the specifics of the ingredients in their "Flash Brewing" kits.

For a new brewer, if the "Flash brewing" kits, brewed to the instructions they offer, makes an enjoyable beer, it seems like a "win/win" for the brewer and MoreBeer.

---

It appears that the hard part with "new brewer" products is reaching the "new brewers" (e.g comments by the guest in BeersSmith podcast #309).

Maybe, just maybe, HomeBrewTalk could defer "trash talking" products intended for new brewers until 12 or 18 months after their release.

And then (after 12 to 18 months) offer constructive comments that moves the hobby forward.