'Flash Brewing'? This looks interesting!

[brewskitom]

Just for fun, I brewed both MoreBeer's "I Heart IPA" Flash brew kit and their "I Heart IPA" All Grain kit on the same day. I followed the instructions for both, but accidentally added the 5 minute kettle addition to the All Grain at 10 minutes. I also just couldn't resist stirring the Flash Brew with a sanitized stainless steel spoon before closing up the fermenter despite the instructions admonishing you that it is unnecessary. No secondary transfers. I dropped trub twice from the conical fermenting the All Grain and added the dry hops with 4 days left using a CO2 purged dry hopper.

Both received identical treatment during fermentation. They were fermented in temperature controlled stainless steel fermenters (the Flash Brew in a BrewBucket in a fermentation chamber, the All Grain in a jacketed SS Brewtech Unitank) on the same schedule: 4 days at 67°, then ramped on degree a day till they reached 72° and held for a couple of days for a diacetyl rest. Cold crashed. Closed transfer to CO2 purged kegs, added 6ml of Biofine, burst carbonated and left at 12PSI for several days.

Both are perfectly drinkable! The all grain has a more pronounced hop flavor. The Flash Brew creates a serious foamy head and has an almost artificial beer flavor to it. It's hard to pinpoint. It just lacks the depth of the all grain and the mouthfeel is a little syrupy.

I repacked a six pack of Bell's Two Hearted Ale into bomber bottles and filled identical bottles with the Flash Brew and All Grain. I brought all three into my local homebrew club meeting simply labeled "A" "B" and "C" and asked members to guess which was which.

Out of 21 responses:

• Only 1 person got all three wrong
• 8 got all three right (38%)
• 11 correctly identified the Flash Brew (52%) but three of those got the Bell's and the All Grain backwards
• 14 correctly identified the Bell's Two Hearted (66%), but 6 of those got the Flash Brew and All Grain backwards

So I conclude that the Flash Brew is a decent beer that roughly half of experienced beer drinkers could confuse with either the All Grain kit or the real thing from Bells. Only 1/3 of the testers mistook one of the kit beers for a real Bell's Two Hearted Ale.

Tom

 

[madscientist451]

Flash Brew MoreBeer (/r/homebrewing) has a link to a recent "The Apartment Brewer" UT that reviewed one of the kits. He starts out very skeptical, but listen to the end of the video to get his full opinion (I won't 'cherry pick' specific quotes).

I noticed that Apartment Brewer referred to the powder in the kit as “dried wort” and indicated it was somewhat different than commercially available malt extract, but didn’t provide any further explanation. His review of the final results is enough to make me skip the flash brewing for now.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I think he called it dried wort cos he assumed it was hopped, which may or may not be the case. In the UK we can buy hopped extract, I'm sure you can too. Extract is boiled and does not need to be boiled again. Loads of homebrewers make beer by simply mixing extract with water and adding hops, so I don't see Flash brewing as anything new, from what I know about it, it's just a branding of no boil extract brewing.

I'm sure this has already been said, I've not read the whole thread. The newest part of the process is using a hop shot, which gets around boiling hops for bitterness. But hopped extract does that too, suggesting the Flash kits don't contain hopped extract.

So I assume the kits contain malt extract, hop extract for bittering, hop pellets for aroma, and yeast. You can create your own kits by buying these things separately. You'll get better beer if you steep some grain, which is a simple and quick additional step. You can get good beer this way, I've done it numerous times, with no wort boil.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... further explanation [on Flash Brewing DME]

Flash Brewing with Chris Graham (President of MoreBeer) – BeerSmith Podcast #309.

from what I know about it, it's just a branding of no boil extract brewing.

Also Flash Brewing with Chris Graham (President of MoreBeer) – BeerSmith Podcast #309.

I will concede that there is a "branding" aspect to these kits. The video also mentions process and ingredient aspects.

---

eta: I'm typing some about the "kit hacks" I have done in other topics. I'll continue to do that in hopes that this topic can remain focused on the kits. Forum wisdom already knows the results of comparing a kit, in it's various forms (all-grain, extract, ...) to the commercial product. And confirmation can be a good thing.

​

 

[fluketamer]

I think he called it dried wort cos he assumed it was hopped, which may or may not be the case. In the UK we can buy hopped extract, I'm sure you can too. Extract is boiled and does not need to be boiled again. Loads of homebrewers make beer by simply mixing extract with water and adding hops, so I don't see Flash brewing as anything new, from what I know about it, it's just a branding of no boil extract brewing.

I'm sure this has already been said, I've not read the whole thread. The newest part of the process is using a hop shot, which gets around boiling hops for bitterness. But hopped extract does that too, suggesting the Flash kits don't contain hopped extract.

So I assume the kits contain malt extract, hop extract for bittering, hop pellets for aroma, and yeast. You can create your own kits by buying these things separately. You'll get better beer if you steep some grain, which is a simple and quick additional step. You can get good beer this way, I've done it numerous times, with no wort boil.

in the U.S. muntons HME in liquid and dry form was available (not kits, no yeast and they were meant as bittering malt additions rather than just malt additions.) was available from the late 70's to the early 90's at most then just the kits were available and malt extract not hopped malt extract. recently it has become avaialble again.

dme is dried wort just as lme is concentrated wort. i assumed and thought i have read that to go from lme to dme they just keep concentrating it until almost no water.

briess lme says cbw on the container. for concentrated brewers wort. just cause it has no hops doesnt mean its not wort its just unhopped wort. semantics i know.

there are a few innovations here aside from just the hop shot. the Most important in my opinion is the proprietary extract which is not simply Light, Pilsner, Amber, Dark, Bavarian Wheat and Dried Rice. etc.
it sounds liek they make a specific grain bill then concentrate that into spraymalt to give you several different styles rather than just the range of dme available now.
there are other differences also mentioned earlier in this thread.

i would be more interested if they sold the dme seperately . i dont do much extract any more but it would be really cool to say have the optionof getting a hazy ipa dried malt extract, or vienna lager dried malt extract or oatmeal stout dried malt extract etc.

it could potentially make for even easier extract brewing.

i threw together my own flash kit with a 10 min hop tea and pilsner dme no boil. it took a long time to condition but it is really good. like surprisingly good. a little thinner then i am used to but still much better than any macro beer. maltodextrine addition would prolly change that. it does have a chill haze that never went away even after months in the fridge. i didint try gelatin that might work.

i would do it again.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I will concede that there is a "branding" aspect to these kits. The video also mentions process and ingredient aspects.

I'm saying you can brew these beers without buying a Flash kit so it's entirely branding. They may have extract made specifically for them, but so do no-boil extract kit companies in the UK, who don't claim to have invented something. The UK kits have improved enormously in recent years with better extract, better yeast, and hop pellets included, which never used to be the case.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm not here to change anyone's opinion about the kits.

I'm saying you can brew these beers without buying a Flash kit so it's entirely branding.

I'll respect that opinion.

 

[fluketamer]

I'm saying you can brew these beers without buying a Flash kit so it's entirely branding. They may have extract made specifically for them, but so do no-boil extract kit companies in the UK, who don't claim to have invented something. The UK kits have improved enormously in recent years with better extract, better yeast, and hop pellets included, which never used to be the case.

what uk companies sell UNHOPPED DRIED malt extract that doesnt fall into the previously mentioned DME options? (light amber dark wheat rice )

that is to me whats different and tricky cause the demand may not be there at all for dme with relaticvely specific grain bills? thats why to me its not entirely branding.

plus some other things like the room temp flash yeast ( definatley not convinced on this one) the aroma pellet hop addition (definately new here in the states up until very recently in canda) , and the no stir idea ( i know not innovative but all together the flash idea is new IMO) , and the hop shot in a kit which although more common in the UK and perhaps canada was never an option here in the states as a kit. the only no boil kits here in the sates for along time was muntons and coopers then mr beer and a few others liek brew demon etc. none of those had hop shot oil or aroma hop additions.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

what uk companies sell UNHOPPED DRIED malt extract that doesnt fall into the previously mentioned DME options? (light amber dark wheat rice )

that is to me whats different and tricky cause the demand may not be there at all for dme with relaticvely specific grain bills? thats why to me its not entirely branding.

plus some other things like the room temp flash yeast ( definatley not convinced on this one) the aroma pellet hop addition (definately new here in the states up until very recently in canda) , and the no stir idea ( i know not innovative but all together the flash idea is new IMO) , and the hop shot in a kit which although more common in the UK and perhaps canada was never an option here in the states as a kit. the only no boil kits here in the sates for along time was muntons and coopers then mr beer and a few others liek brew demon etc. none of those had hop shot oil or aroma hop additions.

It's possible they have some dme made specifically for them. Muntons makes lme beer kits of every style, including hazy.

But you can mix different types of dme. They may do that.

And tbh with a small amount of extra work you can steep some grains and get better beer anyway. I once steeped some roast grains a week into fermentation and converted a pale beer into a stout. With minimal time and effort.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It's possible they have some dme made specifically for them. Muntons makes lme beer kits of every style, including hazy.

But you can mix different types of dme. They may do that.

It's possible that some details on the "Flash Brewing" DME can be found here: Flash Brewing with Chris Graham (President of MoreBeer) – BeerSmith Podcast #309.

 

[madscientist451]

I'm not here to change anyone's opinion about the kits.

That’s cool, I’m not really up for changing anything about anyone at all, but….if the truth is: A similar beer can be made for less $ with extract and concentrated hops, I’m going to spread that info to anyone interested….

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Back on the 9th ...

After 6 days, there was some carbonation (which I was hoping to see). Basement ambient temperature is currently 60 - 62F. I'll open the 2nd sample bottle next weekend (as planned).

... and I opened the 2nd sample bottle last night. After two weeks conditioning at 60F - 62F with the original yeast, carbonation level was good. I'll let it condition for a couple of weeks before focusing on the flavor aspects (although early trials with flavor salt additions hint that adding a little added Na, maybe 10ppm, may be helpful).

eta: This was the Irish Red kit where I used Cascade & Centennial rather than Willamette in an attempt to make an American Amber rather than an Irish Red. It's plausible that the mineral content for the other kits DME is similar - but I'm open to the possibility that it varies between the various types of the kit DME.

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

So I conclude that the Flash Brew is a decent beer that roughly half of experienced beer drinkers could confuse with either the All Grain kit or the real thing from Bells.

Very cool testing! Thanks for sharing!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'll let it condition for a couple of weeks before focusing on the flavor aspects (although early trials with flavor salt additions hint that adding a little added Na, maybe 10ppm, may be helpful).

Here's a simple way to exBEERiment with table salt (NaCl) & a glass of beer. Assume a bottle of sea salt with a grinder. Pour a glass of beer. Add "a half spin" of salt from the bottle. For my pallet, it makes a slight positive change in the beer.

 

[mashdar]

I started a Flash red ale. The basement has been ~63F. I used distilled water this time to give it it's best chance to shine.

I started spunding at ~70hr after pitch. I'm on day 8, and the pressure is still steadily climbing. It's at 15.1 psi, +0.9 psi vs yesterday.

I'm surprised at how slowly it's going. I guess it doesn't like low 60s. I can't find a published temperature range, though. (Maybe on the now-recycled instructions?)

edit: Worth mentioning the instructions say 10-14 days. Maybe I'm just spoiled.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm surprised at how slowly it's going. I guess it doesn't like low 60s.

caution: this is a sample size of 2. So your (and my) milage may vary over time.

About a month ago (Oct 13th), I brewed a 2.5 gal batch of the Irish Red Ale using the kit DME & yeast. Ambient temperature was around 65F. Wort went to 71F early on the 15th. Waited almost three weeks for krausen to fall - ended up doing a short cold crash to finish that. Bottles carbonated in about a week at ~ 60F. 1st bottle(s) suggest a little more time for conditioning.

Last week (Nov 10), I used the other half of the kit yeast with Muntons extra light DME. Pitched yeast with wort at 68F; ambient temperature was 61F. Temperature inside fermenter was 65F for 4 days, then dropped to 61F this morning (ambient is 60F). Looks like I'll bottle condition this batch in the 59F - 60F range.

How low can it go? So far, a 60F basement (with no temperature control) appears to be fine. Assume 2 weeks fermenting and two weeks bottle conditinong. I may put one of the IPA kits in the brewing backlog for early next year - as the basement will be heading towards 55F.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Has anyone that's done one of these flash brewing kits, been brave enough to fill a clear bottle, and confirm that these hops cannot be light-struck?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

let's continue down a side topic ...

Most important in my opinion is the proprietary extract which is not simply Light, Pilsner, Amber, Dark, Bavarian Wheat and Dried Rice. etc.

it sounds like they make a specific grain bill then concentrate that into spraymalt to give you several different styles rather than just the range of DME available now.

Williams Brewing (HomeBrewTalk sponsor) makes a number of style specific LMEs for their kits - and also offers those LMEs "à la carte". My (limited) experience with these LME products is that they can deliver them fresh (and I can store them properly).

Will MoreBeer do something similar with their Flash Brewing DME products?

I hope so.

but all together the flash idea is new IMO

and IMO, "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

But, as always "time will tell".

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm surprised at how slowly it's going. I guess it doesn't like low 60s. I can't find a published temperature range, though. (Maybe on the now-recycled instructions?)

edit: Worth mentioning the instructions say 10-14 days. Maybe I'm just spoiled.

Over in a different topic thread (link), I brewed a Muntons DME IPA using the kit yeast. After ten days, it was at 80% AA and two weeks, it's at 84% AA. I'll give it another week (three weeks from pitching yeast) before taking another hydrometer sample.

FWIW: yeast was pitched into 68F wort with a basement temperature in the 60F-62F range; no temperature control; not pressure fermented.

 

[mashdar]

Yeah, at 15 days at ~63F, I am still suspecting some minor activity. I'm not motivated enough to take readings, so it'll sit another week.

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

Has anyone that's done one of these flash brewing kits, been brave enough to fill a clear bottle, and confirm that these hops cannot be light-struck?

I didn't use clear bottles, but I did ferment a batch in an uncovered clear Fermonster sitting on a table in my brewery and there was no skunking.

 

[mashdar]

OK, "red" ale now on tap. It is beer.

Prior to my thoughts, a few caveats:

1. This time I used distilled water with no adjustments.
2. I fermented for 18 days in a keg at 63F, spunding to a target 2.5vol after 3 days. I put it in the serving fridge after 18 days, and tasted it three days later. Took longer than I expected. Next time at this temperature, I wouldn't spund until day 5-7.
3. Serving from fermenter. Obviously not standard practice for these kits.
4. I made a half batch. I weighed everything fairly meticulously.

Tasting notes:

• Appearance: Much less head than the pale ale. Does not stick around. Not much lacing. The color is a dark gold. Nothing red about this beer. I expect a red to be ~10-15 SRM, but this is closer to 7-8. No roasted barley hues that I can make out. edit: Second pour had slightly more head. Not sure what was up with the first one.
• Aroma: Faint rubbing alcohol and earthy hop. A touch of sweet malt. Not much going on in the nose.
• Flavor: Not much in the flavor department. Ever so slightly tart and boozy. If I bought a bottle of this, I'd figure it had sat on the shelf for a year. No oxidation flavors, but not much of anything. If I focus really hard on the aftertaste, I get a hint of ... vienna? Maybe a little acetaldehyde.
• Mouthfeel: Fine. Maybe ever so slightly syrupy.
• Overall: It's drinkable. I don't find much to love. I think a steeped* bit of roasted barley would potentially make this an OK beer. This is a bit of a blank canvas. (*Would this require boiling to avoid contamination? IDK.)

edit: I feel like roasted barley should be pretty sterile due to the roasting process. I wonder if you could "dry-malt" the beer, adding an ounce of grain on day 3. I'd welcome some extra tannins if it made the beer more interesting.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The idea of adding pasteurized (or boiled) steeped wort is discussed in books by Gordon Strong and Chris Colby.

Cold steeping tends to mute flavors.

Boiling the steeped wort will kill off any 'nasties' that may be unintentionally added between the roasting of the malts and the steeping of the malts.

The risk / reward trade off for not boiling a steeped wort is yours to make.

Personally, I see no reward (to not boiling the steeped wort) for the additional risk.

 

[IslandLizard]

Personally, I see no reward (to not boiling the steeped wort) for the additional risk.

Steeping dark roasted malts at 130-140°F for 30-60 minutes, then heating to 150-160F for 10-15 minutes should pasteurize that dark wort enough to kill off any clinging nasties.

Although the difference can be subtle, I prefer the flavor from dark malts that were steeped, then pasteurized, over including them in the mash and boiling the resulting dark wort for an hour or longer.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

so 40 to 75 minutes plus time for heating (70°F to 140°F & 130°F to 160°F) and cooling to 70°F.

With that amount of time, one could do a short partial boil and cool using a"no chill" approach:

• steep from ambient to 160°F while heating the water to a boil
• add DME, maybe some hops, maybe boil some for hop bitterness / flavor
• hop stand?
  • use chilled water to drop wort temp to 170F, add hops
  • heat to only 180F, add DME (wort drops to 170F) add hops
• move wort to 'no chill' container

At this point, brew day duration depends on how fast can one heat water.

 

[rmchair]

I havent bought a kit yet, but alternatively did the purchase the pinter deal- (2 kits and pinter for $50 shipped).
The pinter hardware is really incredibly ingenious for simplicity. The two pinter ipas i tried are interesting yet a bit malty for my liking as i like session hazies, and the kits are spendy.
So Id like to use a flash kit in the pinter next. The pinter dry hop uses a liquid bottle attachment. I could reuse the bottle, but the issue is finding a cost effective liquid dry hop. YVH has one but im not sure its cost effective. They also have some new fangled spray-in-the-glass concentrates that look interesting.

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

I havent bought a kit yet, but alternatively did the purchase the pinter deal- (2 kits and pinter for $50 shipped).
The pinter hardware is really incredibly ingenious for simplicity. The two pinter ipas i tried are interesting yet a bit malty for my liking as i like session hazies, and the kits are spendy.
So Id like to use a flash kit in the pinter next. The pinter dry hop uses a liquid bottle attachment. I could reuse the bottle, but the issue is finding a cost effective liquid dry hop. YVH has one but im not sure its cost effective. They also have some new fangled spray-in-the-glass concentrates that look interesting.

I just opened my Pinter a few days ago and had the same thought -- particularly if MoreBeer starts doing smaller Flash Brewing kit sizes this could be a pretty killer combo for quick brewing.

The other potential challenge with the Pinter might be that with the Flash Brewing kits you dump the pellet hops right into the fermenter (at least the two Flash Brewing kits I did came with pellet cryo hops in addition to the liquid hop extract), but maybe the hops would mostly come out when you undock. I'd just be a bit worried about hop matter clogging the tap if it doesn't all come out when you undock the Pinter.

Only one way to find out.

 

[rmchair]

Yeah im concerned as well about the hop matter getting into the dock or clogging. The time period is so short it would probably be okay, except for potential tap clogging. Maybe add hops in a muslin sock attached to the far end of the pinter?

 

[mashdar]

Are there tea bags you can pack at home with hops + float?

 

[Franktalk]

I read this thread to see if this new way to brew is okay. After reading about all the hacks and work-arounds, I'm convinced that I might as well keep brewing the "old fashioned" way. It hasn't failed me yet.