First Wine Attempt Questions

[WTD]

Im ready to try a decent wine recipe today. Im still learning.

Im thinking to begin...

3kg (6.6 pound) frozen mixed berries (I will crush them also)
6L (1.5 gallon) of water
1 teaspoon of nutrient
1/2 teaspoon Pectinase
if i need acid (but i dont know if i need? i like merlot shiraz type reds)
sugar to bring it to about 12% so maybe 1.090 SG.

What does wine this way usually stop at? will it be a touch below 1.000 FG or higher?

Do i need to let the Pectinase work before adding yeast or can i pitch it all in an hour or so?


How important is tannins to wine, i assume ill need to add some but not sure how? oak chiips in secondary fermenter? I like oak flavour

Ill ferment in a 15l benchtop fermenter then syphon into a 5L demijon for secondary. Should i put some oak chips in secondary fermenter and if so what is a good strting point for grams per litre of wine and time frame?

Finally when finished fermenting what is stablizing?
googling gives a lot of info but im wanting a more shorter summary lol. Ive been looking for weeks on and off now.

Wondering what i need to stablize a dry red and what to add to try avoid oxidization. i dont want it sweet at all, want it dry as and clear and not to oxidize lol.

I read somewhere about adding something to help avoid oxidizing but i cant find that page again. antioxidant or something?

Off to the home brew shop to buy more supplies later today to start. Ill bombard them with questions also lol but prefer to know before i go so they dont sell me something i dont need

Cheers

 

[jgmillr1]

Welcome to the joy of winemaking WTD! Lots of variables and lots of ability to customize your wine style. To answer your questions in order:

The acid addition is necessary to keep the pH in a healthy range (3.1-3.5 for fruit wines, say) and adjust the TA to the right level of tartness. Unless you have a pH meter hand, you will have no idea where your wine is. The pH strips are unreliable, so it is best to buy a $80 pH meter and some calibration standards so you can know. The TA is critical for how tart your wine will taste in the end. If you are shooting for a dry wine, you want the TA to be 5.0-6.5 g/L. A sweet wine can range 8.0-10.0 g/L depending on the residual sugar. Your LHBS can sell you a titration kit that can give you a reasonable idea where you are. Your acid addition should target your desired TA.

Your wine will stop fermenting usually at 0.990 or so SG, unless the fermentation sticks due to temperature, nutrients, or insufficient yeast innoculation.

The pectinase activity is independent of the yeast going through its lag phase. Just pitch them and go.

The yeast nutrients should not be added until the wine is halfway fermented and the yeast are starting to get needy.

The tannin in your wine is up to your taste and style. You don't say what fruit you are using and some fruit comes with plenty of tannin available if you allow it to be extracted in time. In general, tannin helps with color stability of fruit wine so I suggest you allow the fruit to ferment until close to 1.000 before pressing and this will allow some tannin to be extracted. Cranberries have quite a bit of tannin as well as blackberries. Blueberries can have a cinnamon note with the tannin too. Strawberries and sour cherries don't have appreciable tannin that I can tell though.

Do you really want oak in the fruit wine? Just a question, no wrong answer as this depends on your style you are making. If you want to put oak in the wine, I suggest you do it in the secondary carboy with a low dose of medium-toasted american oak. This will give it a hint of oak and vanilla. The package will give you a guideline. Usually it is 8lbs/1000gal, scaled down to your batch size. You can always adjust the oak next time once you know how this ends up.

Stabilizing refers to 2 things: 1) cold-stabilizing to prevent potassium bitartrate crystals from forming when the bottle is chilled (not an issue in fruit wines since there is nearly no tartaric acid), or 2) preventing refermentation of sweet wines due to yeast+sugar. In case (2) you need to add potassium sorbate to inhibit yeast growth. Note that it does NOT kill yeast, just stunts their growth. (Kind of like how they say cigarettes do for kids)

You will definitely need to add sulfites to the wine to prevent oxidation and spoilage. You'll need to add them regardless if you add sorbate.

Have fun and be sure to ask more questions as they arise.

 

[WTD]

Thanks that was very informative. I might aim for 1.085 SG instead so i dont over shoot. As long as its under 13% for my first one but not under 12% im happy.

when is the best time to check for starting gravity? should i check at the beginning after i add sugar and then recheck before yeast kick off fully to see how much it has gone up from the frozen fruits sugar? frozen fruit packs tell me the sugar content but im sure thats just an average.

3kg of the fruit i just bought (6 packs of 1/2kg) is 379.5 grams according to the back of the packets. this is the theoretical combined sugar. can i expect to extract all or most of this?

i went 1.5kg of blueberries and 1.5kg of blackberries.
wine yeast i have is mMangrove Jacks VR21

Might give the oak a miss untill i get the process right, might find i dont need it but i have liked that in some reds in the past.

I bought wine nutrient, pectinase and i bought ascorbic acid and campdon tablets for when i need to bottle.

Im thinking for my process i will boil some water to pour over the 3kg of frozen fruit so its not too cold, add sugar and then top up with normal temp water till i have about 6l liquid. then add pectinaise and pitch yeast and then watch.

then add nutrient after a few days and when gravity shows about 1.001 or around there ill transfer to a 5L demi filled up to about 1/4" under the bung and let it finish out its ferment.



When im ready to bottle im unsure the process...
do i syphon out the wine into another 5L demijon where a crushed campdon tabet and the ascorbic acid are already in and let it mix while filling the demijon with the wine, then once in there and i assume it will be mixed (?) syphon into bottles right away?

Thank you

 

[jgmillr1]

The blackberries I've worked with run about 9 brix and the blueberries run about 14 brix, just to give you an approximate starting point. Since a lot of the sugar will still be locked up in the berries, measuring the SG can be tricky. Adding water up to 6L will dilute the fruit roughly 2:1, so you are likely going to have to add about 1kg of sugar.

Yeast typically prefer about 25'C, however you end up there.

The yeast nutrients would be best added when the SG is around 1.05. If you wait until 1.001 then the fermentation is nearly done and there is a risk that the fermentation may stick or that the nutrients will not be used (meaning they will feed spoilage organisms instead).

You are going to rack the wine several times before it is ready for bottling in order to let the yeast settle out and clarify. You'll be adding the crushed campden tablets at the end of fermentation and before bottling. If you plan to age the wine (to let it settle) then be sure to keep up with the campden tablets every couple months. It is important to keep air away from the wine to prevent oxidation and spoilage. This means no headspace in the containers and minimize splashing.

Ascorbic acid is useful to aid in prevention browning in white wines but won't hurt if you use it in dark wines too.

 

[WTD]

Thanks, The temp in my kitchen fluctuates between 23'C to 26'C this time of year in Brisbane. I use heaters and airconditioning so i will keep it inside so its a more stable temp. Im in Australia and finding supplies for wine isnt as easy as i expected.

As for sugar in the berries, is it safe to say i could extract 50% of those sugars? if i estimate i can get 50% and then add 1kg ten i will get an approximate finishing abv of 11.7% if my calcs are correct. i guess i may just have to do it and find out for myself. but would be good to know what to expect before i start.

Oh i forgot to buy sugar damn lol. off to the shops again

each time i rack do i use a campton tablet? rack on a crushed tablet, let sit for a week or 2 and re rack on another campton tablet untill it is cleared enough to bottle? then add antioxidant and camptdon tablet one last time and bottle right away?

Do they take a while to degas, not sure i want to use a degasser on a drill, seems like more trouble than its worth to me but what do i know lol.

just spent 20mins looking in australia. found one site refer to what i want as this link below
https://www.ibrew.com.au/products/potassium-metabisulphite

which i got from this page
https://www.ibrew.com.au/pages/the-importance-of-sulphur-dioxide

it said i want Potassium Metabisulphite and should be in campdon tablets and that Sodium Metabisulphite is also sulfites but a cheaper option and shoud only be used for cleaning however the campdon tablets i bought main ingredient is Sodium Metabisulphite (E223) 450mg/tablet (not the Potassium Metabisulphite). Is it safe to say that i may only need just the ascorbic acid and campdon talet or should i buy the one in the first link and use that one with a campdon tablet?

Ive been home brewing whisky, vodka (from grain with proper cuts, not a noob there) and beer for many many years. Im confident i can make a good wine one day, the only process that worries me is the chance of oxidization, I want to make sure i get it right as this cost a lot more to make than spirits and beer and takes a lot longer.

Ill post some pics when i put it all down.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[jonereb]

I always add a crushed campden each time I rack. After racking to secondary you may want to rack again within a week or two after everything settles. After that, I rack about once a month -- even less as the wine starts to clear. I start the process in Sept, but I don't bottle until June. I'm in no hurry since I like to let the wine age for 2 years.

 

[WTD]

I always add a crushed campden each time I rack. After racking to secondary you may want to rack again within a week or two after everything settles. After that, I rack about once a month -- even less as the wine starts to clear. I start the process in Sept, but I don't bottle until June. I'm in no hurry since I like to let the wine age for 2 years.

so a campden taplet is used going from primary to secondary? this doesnt affect the yeast?

Can i consider it aging while it is settling in the demijon, once it has finished fermenting?

the instructions on my campden tablet pack says 1 tablet for 5L for bottling protection, 2 tablets per 5L for full stabilization. What is the difference?


I have something else i need to bottle and that one i want to let self carbonate with a sugar tablet in beer bottles. If i rack onto a campden tablet then bottle will this still carbonate naturaly?

Thanks

 

[jonereb]

I'm still a novice wine maker, so I'll set a pro answer the question about stabilization, but campden alone will not stop fermentation. After several months of racking/clearing, I use campden and Potassium Sorbate according to pkg directions to stop fermentation, wait a day or so and then back sweeten. Once I go from primary to secondary, I start the clock on aging.

 

[jgmillr1]

each time i rack do i use a campton tablet? rack on a crushed tablet, let sit for a week or 2 and re rack on another campton tablet untill it is cleared enough to bottle? then add antioxidant and camptdon tablet one last time and bottle right away?

Depends on how long between rackings, I guess. Here's what I do for a fruit wine... after fermentation is done (SG is about 0.990) add 75ppm potassium metabisulfite (KMBS). This is like 1.5 campden tablets per gallon. That wallops the wine with sulfites and will protect it for months as long as I take care to keep oxygen away from it. If aging, every 3 months I'd add another 30ppm KMBS (about 0.5 campden tablet per gallon) and before bottling I'll add another 0.5 tablet if you haven't recently added sulfites.

Sulfites are antioxidents by themselves. The ascorbic acid is an insurance policy and really only used on white wines that are prone to browning.

Do they take a while to degas, not sure i want to use a degasser on a drill, seems like more trouble than its worth to me but what do i know lol.

Racking is sufficient to degas the wine and it will naturally degas over time. After all, once you've opened a soda it doesn't stay carbonated. I feel the degassing tools are unnecessary and risk oxidizing the wine.

it said i want Potassium Metabisulphite and should be in campdon tablets and that Sodium Metabisulphite is also sulfites but a cheaper option and shoud only be used for cleaning

You can't taste the saltiness of potassium nearly the way you can taste it with sodium. Besides, sodium isn't a legal additive in the US so it is mostly as a potassium product.

Can i consider it aging while it is settling in the demijon, once it has finished fermenting?

Yes, generally any time the wine is done fermenting and you are letting it sit, then it is "aging". Outside of storage in a barrel or oxygen permeable container, the term "aging" is usually used to mean that the wine is being given time for the yeast and such to settle. You could alternatively filter it and skip the "aging".

 

[WTD]

Thanks guys.

Just put it down.

My process was add 3L of water, then the frozen fruit.
disolved sugar in 1L boiling water and poured in.
Added 1.5L boiling water again as temp was too low for acurate SG reading
then added another 0.5L of room temp water.
added more sugar with about 200ml hot water to get SG to 1.086 @ 22.5'C
Added Pectinaise then rehydrated eyast for a few mins and added in too.

after all was added a think it may be closer to 6.5L but then it may not.

Ill check the gravity over the next few hours to see if it goes up or down from sugar in the fruit.

according to an online gravity vs tempurature calculator my 1.086 is 1.088 at 22.5'C and according to an online calculator again (lol) if it goes to .990 then thats about 12.64%abv

Will see what happens over next 24 hours and take readings. I assume once the yeast start fermenting the gravity will go down not up so i guess theres a time frame.

Its more full than this now, was a progress pic along the way.
View media item 69354View media item 69358
Will be interesting

 

[WTD]

Seems to have lowered to 1.084 temp corrected. will keep checking

 

[WTD]

18.5 hours after pitching and SG is 1.090 @ 24.2'C so an online calculator tells me its 1.093 @ 20'C. According to another online calc if it finishes at .990 then it will be 13.28% abv.

Im happy with that, as long as it doesnt go over 14 ill be happy but im unsure if i will know the exaxt SG now that the yeast is starting to get a run going.

Should i add a 1/4 teaspoon of citric or tartic acid, or some acid?
i havent added any and im wondering if i should add a bit? i had a merlot the other night with a sharpness (not hot burn that was bad, dont know how to describe it) to it i would like to replicate but im not sure if this is an acid thing or an ABV thing. it was a 14% Grant Burge Merlot from Barossa.


At what time or gravity reading should i add the nutrient?
1.040? Less?

Thanks

 

[jgmillr1]

I'd add the yeast nutrients at 1.04-1.05. The acid question can't be answered unless you know what the current acid level is in your wine. How's it taste now? You can always add it later by taste if needed. The current level of yeast and sugar will augment the taste. Any idea what your pH and TA are now?

 

[WTD]

I added the nutrients at 1.06 just a little while ago. will see how it goes.

Im not sure on the PH or tart levels. i havet got a PH meter or titration kit. Ill get a PH kit in a couple of days and check it before i go to secondary.

Should i aim for PH of 3.1 - 3.5 while fermenting or more when it finishes it finishes in that range?

Thanks

 

[jgmillr1]

That's a reasonable range for the pH of a fruit wine. Would not want it to be higher or you risk oxidation/spoilage.

 

[WTD]

is it best to get to about 3.3 ph just before going to secondary fermenter if at 1.01?

 

[jgmillr1]

It is best to make any needed acid adjustments before fermentation altogether. I would not make any adjustments now unless you are trying to correct a problem. The pH doesn't appreciably change over fermentation. It will drift if the wine drops tartrate crystals.

 

[WTD]

tasted some earlier, prob around 1.05 gravity and it tastes like its going to be nice, if my taste is anything to go on the acididy tasted on par but then i may be wrong.

Even though its half way fermenting the sugars i am really surprised on how its turning out taste wise.


when i strain and squeeze the fruit before transfering to secondary, can i use latex gloves (food prep gloves if that makes sense), sterilize them and just squeeze them in my hands and throw the pulp?

or should i use a masher, strainer and a bowel to catch the juice?

Thanks

 

[WTD]

Its at about 1.025 as of 30 mins ago. Looks like ill go to secodary in a 4 hours or so otherwise it will be well below 1.000 when i get up in the morning, maybe even finished.

 

[jgmillr1]

A grain bag for brewing is pretty efficient

 

[WTD]

A grain bag for brewing is pretty efficient

like a large hops bag or BIAB bag? put the fruit in it to ferment then pull bag out at the end of primary?

at 1.012 now, will transfer once my equipment is all sterilized.

 

[WTD]

Both demijons are 5L, im thinking maybe 7.5L so far. i think i loose 400ml volume each time i rack.

I added 2 teaspoons ruffly of sugar to the smaller one. hoping that this will help create a CO2 blanket over the half filled one. when i rack from the big one to use a campden etc i will top up with the smaller one and then drink the rest of the smaller one un aged anymore. I assume the small one wont last after i disturb it once.

View media item 69360
i have 3.5kg of blueberries i plan to use for my second one. I might get a grain bag or hops? first so it is easier to seperate the fruit. he syphon still picked up a few 'floaters'

 

[WTD]

I didnt press the fruit when i extracted them, i just let them slowly drain in a collander. Should i press them with a masher next time to try and squeeze out all the juice before going to secondary?

 

[nik2]

Did you order a ph meter? I'm at the same point as you, and did a quick purchase of cheap litmus paper (I saw the comment that it's unreliable, but it was very cheap!). It just struck me that the berry juice might add to the colour, so reading the strip won't work very well...