First time using Steeped Grains, WAY over on OG

[jamina1]

Hey all, I just finished up brew day with my first recipe using steeped grains.

I scaled up a 1-gallon all-grain batch that I had previously made, and converted the primary malt to extra pale DME.

I put all this into beersmith, aiming for a 3 gallon batch, here's the recipe: http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/1540169?&doid=592a1ebe62f10

Originally, I had Munich + Caramel 60 as my steeping malts, but when I went to purchase my ingredients at my LHBS, the Munich said it had to be mashed so I swapped it for 50/50 Victory/Honey malt, both of which said they could be steeped.

When I came home, I updated my recipe to make sure I wasn't overshooting anything, fixed my hop AA% and got ready for brew day.

Anyway, I followed the updated recipe exactly this afternoon, finished the boil, and took my OG reading. It was 1.095!! I was aiming for 1.058. (This has been temp corrected, too).

I don't know what happenned. Luckily (or not depending on your viewpoint) I lost a lot to hop trub in the kettle and was able to dilute it in the fermenter to the correct volume, and the OG is now 1.050 but jeez.

What did I do wrong? Did I enter it into beersmith wrong? Did it not properly take into account the steeped grains? I'm really confused because normally my OG's are right on target.

 

[kh54s10]

Did you add top up water? Before or after the 1.095 reading?

I suspect that there was an error in your reading. I think it would be very difficult to get that high with the ingredients you have, if possible at all.

I just looked at a calculator. If you had 2.5 gallons left after the loss to the trub you would have had to add 2.25 gallons to the 2.5 gallons of 1.095 wort to get 1.050. Do you now have 4.75 gallons?

 

[jamina1]

Did you add top up water? Before or after the 1.095 reading?

I suspect that there was an error in your reading. I think it would be very difficult to get that high with the ingredients you have, if possible at all.

I just looked at a calculator. If you had 2.5 gallons left after the loss to the trub you would have had to add 2.25 gallons to the 2.5 gallons of 1.095 wort to get 1.050. Do you now have 4.75 gallons?

After the boil, we had about 2.3 gallons. Due to hop sediment in the kettle we only got about 1.5 gallons out. At least that's what was on the side of my fermenting bucket. That's when I took the reading.

After adding water to the 3 gallon mark it's 1.050-1.048 ish

 

[hvjackson]

Several things are wrong here.

First, when I put those ingredients into a recipe calculator for a 3 gallon batch (post-boil) I get an OG of 1.079. So your 1.058 target number is suspect.

Second, if you are using extract it should be practically impossible for you to miss your target. The only possible sources of error are the wrong volume (did you measure your post-boil volume) or a hydrometer reading error.

Start by checking your hydrometer in DISTILLED water. Make sure to correct for temp. The reference temp will be printed on the side (usually 60 °F or 68 °F). If it does not read 1.000 then it is off a little and you will need to add or subtract the difference to get accurate readings.

Next, how are you measuring volumes? If you didn't add enough water to start or boiled too much off, you would have a low post-boil volume and therefore a high OG. Running some numbers backwards, assuming your hydrometer readings are correct, you would have to have a post-boil volume of 2.5 instead of 3 gallons to account for that error. (That is before taking into account any losses due to trub.)

 

[jamina1]

I used the marks on the kettle. Added 3 gallons of water, steeped grain, held that at 150 for 30 minutes. Removed grain, added DME and commenced boil.

It may have been slightly under 3 gallons but only just when I started the boil.

Probably about 2.3 gallons after and we left about a half gallon in the kettle. The fermenting bucket said I put about 1.5 gallons into it though. Topped with water to 3 gallons, it's where it should be.

I guess I'm more concerned that beersmith didn't accurately predict the post boil OG.

Is there something I should fix on my equipment profile?

First, when I put those ingredients into a recipe calculator for a 3 gallon batch (post-boil) I get an OG of 1.079. So your 1.058 target number is suspect.

I'm looking at it in Beersmith right now. It does say the pre-boil gravity is 1.077, then says "Estimated post-boil volume: 2.34 gal and Est Post Boil gravity 1.058 SG"

Second, if you are using extract it should be practically impossible for you to miss your target.

That's why I mentioned the steeped grain -- is it possible that somehow was not taken into account?

 

[audioa84]

I think you are missing out on what you should be expecting. If you ended up with 1.5 gallons and the sg was 1.058, when you diluted it with water to get to 3 gal. batch size, your OG would have been 1.029. So the process worked correctly with the exception of you losing more to hop trub than expected. Also, I know it shouldn't add much but 1 lb of honey malt and 1 lb of victory would have some effect on gravity even if you only steep for 30 min. Try changing the batch style to partial mash (since that's what your doing when you steep grain) to see what I mean. I think that may be what you did in the comment below but that should be the setting to use with what you're doing.

I'm looking at it in Beersmith right now. It does say the pre-boil gravity is 1.077, then says "Estimated post-boil volume: 2.34 gal and Est Post Boil gravity 1.058 SG"

Lastly, be careful of your equipment setting on Beersmith. I get a post boil of 1.3 gal using the 4g pot extract setting (comes standard in Beersmith). Try changing your equipment profile and see if that helps in the future. Good luck!

 

[RM-MN]

Hey all, I just finished up brew day with my first recipe using steeped grains.

I scaled up a 1-gallon all-grain batch that I had previously made, and converted the primary malt to extra pale DME.

I put all this into beersmith, aiming for a 3 gallon batch, here's the recipe: http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/1540169?&doid=592a1ebe62f10

Originally, I had Munich + Caramel 60 as my steeping malts, but when I went to purchase my ingredients at my LHBS, the Munich said it had to be mashed so I swapped it for 50/50 Victory/Honey malt, both of which said they could be steeped.

When I came home, I updated my recipe to make sure I wasn't overshooting anything, fixed my hop AA% and got ready for brew day.

Anyway, I followed the updated recipe exactly this afternoon, finished the boil, and took my OG reading. It was 1.095!! I was aiming for 1.058. (This has been temp corrected, too).

I don't know what happenned. Luckily (or not depending on your viewpoint) I lost a lot to hop trub in the kettle and was able to dilute it in the fermenter to the correct volume, and the OG is now 1.050 but jeez.

What did I do wrong? Did I enter it into beersmith wrong? Did it not properly take into account the steeped grains? I'm really confused because normally my OG's are right on target.

First off, don't fear the mash. If you steep your grains within the range of 148 to 160 you essentially did a mash but without the proper grains you didn't get conversion. Add the Munich and it converts. it's that simple.

Second is that you took your OG reading at the wrong time. You want to take that reading after all the water is added. That will probably get you a really low reading unless you really stir to mix the dense wort with the top off water.

Third is don't waste potential beer just because it has hop trub. Dump it all into the fermenter. The yeast like the trub and whatever they don't consume will settle out and you will recover more beer from above it when you bottle than if you had dumped it out.

 

[jamina1]

First off, don't fear the mash. If you steep your grains within the range of 148 to 160 you essentially did a mash but without the proper grains you didn't get conversion. Add the Munich and it converts. it's that simple.

Second is that you took your OG reading at the wrong time. You want to take that reading after all the water is added. That will probably get you a really low reading unless you really stir to mix the dense wort with the top off water.

Third is don't waste potential beer just because it has hop trub. Dump it all into the fermenter. The yeast like the trub and whatever they don't consume will settle out and you will recover more beer from above it when you bottle than if you had dumped it out.

Thanks. I don't fear all-grain, I just don't have the equipment for it at the moment. I could do BIAB, but I only have a 4 gallon pot so I don't have the capacity to do all-grain for a full 5 gallon batch quite yet.

I think this beer is already going to suffer from being over-hopped, I didn't want to have all that extra hop stuff in the fermenter to make it even more bitter. Or is that not a thing?

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks. I don't fear all-grain, I just don't have the equipment for it at the moment. I could do BIAB, but I only have a 4 gallon pot so I don't have the capacity to do all-grain for a full 5 gallon batch quite yet.

I think this beer is already going to suffer from being over-hopped, I didn't want to have all that extra hop stuff in the fermenter to make it even more bitter. Or is that not a thing?

I wasn't really talking about all grain, just partial mash. Your grain bag you would use for steeping, while not ideal, would have worked well enough for this one batch if you had water within the range I specified.

Hop oils need to be isomerized to provide bitterness and since your hops were already boiled the oils were isomerized and wouldn't have had any more to give to your beer. You can dump then all in. Isomerization happens when the hops are in water or wort over about 180 F. Once cooled below 170 the isomerization pretty much stops.

 

[kh54s10]

Why so much lost to hops and trub? Even if you used a ton, if pellets - dump it all into your fermenter. 2.5 ounces of hops is not all that much. If you didn't want that in the fermenter I would expect that you should have left only a pint or so.

Having a lot of hops in the fermenter will not make the beer more bitter. That happens during the boil. Over hopped is not going to be the problem with this one. It is not so far off. You were targeting 1.058 OG and got about 1.050. A little weak but not excessively so. If anything leaving the hop trub behind and diluting that much would weaken the hop presence.

I took a quick look at Beersmith and tried to adjust to a 3 gallon extract profile. I couldn't get it to do what I want but didn't spend much time on it since I don't do extracts much and when I do it is 5 gallons.

 

[jamina1]

Why so much lost to hops and trub? Even if you used a ton, if pellets - dump it all into your fermenter. 2.5 ounces of hops is not all that much. If you didn't want that in the fermenter I would expect that you should have left only a pint or so.

I'm not really certain, but the siphon wouldn't stay flowing after that point and I couldn't get any more out, and it was all mixed up with the hops and I didn't want to screw it up. I guess next time, since it's cool anyway I'll just dump it all into the fermenter.

 

[73standard]

Silly question probably, but with such a small volume are you sure your hydrometer wasn't bottoming out in the fermenter, falsely indicating higher?

 

[shaunvfx]

Another thing I haven't seen anyone mention that could be possible is that when you take your sample for the reading, let it sit for a while in the cylinder or whatever vessel you are using.

If trub/proteins are suspended in the sample it with certainly affect the density of the solution, which will change the hydrometer reading.

I have often times had 30 points higher on readings where the sample hasn't settled. 30 minutes later the sample has settled and my reading is spot on perfect.

 

[climateboy]

I know it shouldn't add much but 1 lb of honey malt and 1 lb of victory would have some effect on gravity even if you only steep for 30 min. Try changing the batch style to partial mash (since that's what your doing when you steep grain) to see what I mean. I think that may be what you did in the comment below but that should be the setting to use with what you're doing.



Lastly, be careful of your equipment setting on Beersmith. I get a post boil of 1.3 gal using the 4g pot extract setting (comes standard in Beersmith). Try changing your equipment profile and see if that helps in the future. Good luck!

Steeping grains is not the same as mashing, unless it is grains that can self-convert--base malts and lightly kilned grains like Munich or Vienna--in the conversion temperature range (144-160) then they will add additional sugars to the wort. However, Victory and honey malts have 0 diastatic power, meaning they do not have the enzymatic ability to self-convert. They do contribute some sugars in solution, but that would be captured by the steep setting in Beersmith.

 

[jamina1]

Silly question probably, but with such a small volume are you sure your hydrometer wasn't bottoming out in the fermenter, falsely indicating higher?

I have a sample tube for this reason.

 

[isl247]

I'm not really certain, but the siphon wouldn't stay flowing after that point and I couldn't get any more out, and it was all mixed up with the hops and I didn't want to screw it up. I guess next time, since it's cool anyway I'll just dump it all into the fermenter.

Yeah, don't use the siphon when moving wort to the fermenter. At that point, you want to agitate/aerate it as much as possible and the siphon is meant to prevent that. I just pour my wort right out of the kettle (or through the valve on my big kettle) and use a double mesh strainer on top of the fermenter to catch the bigger chunks of crap. The strainer gives the wort some bonus aeration at the same time.