First time using Bru'n

[kangabrew]

Hi.

This is my first post

I need some help with Bru'n Water.

Water report (ppm if not stated otherwise):
Ca 25.0
Mg 3.9
Na 10.5
HCO3 59.0 (stated as "alkalinity")
SO4 39
Cl 13.5
K 2.4

Total Hardness 4.45 °dH

I have a couple of questions:
1. The pH is 8.5, is that information not required?
2. Is the total hardness value (and pH?) only needed if you need to approximate bicarbonate/carbonate values?
3. From the instuctions:
"If the water report gives either Total Hardness, Temporary Hardness, or Permanent Hardness results, compare the reported values from the water report to the values calculated on the Water Report Input sheet. If Total Hardness is incorrect, adjust either the calcium or magnesium content to better match the reported value. Magnesium is typically at lower concentration than calcium, so preferentially adjusting the calcium concentration is recommended."

What values is it referring to? What should I compare my total hardness to? I cannot see it listed anywhere in the sheet.

4. I am doing BIAB, so I guess that I should skip the Sparge Acidification step and set sparge volume to 0 in Water Adjustment?

5. General thoughts on the results from the water report. Is it considered OK?

Thanks

 

[jmitchell3]

1. Not required unless you need it for 2.
2. Yes. If they report total alkalinity or temporary hardness as CaCO3 this calculation can give you approximate values to plug in for bicarbonate and carbonate in the top section.
3. Not sure.
4. Yes. I use a Blichmann BrewEasy system. The sparging water acidification calculator is unecessary. On the water adjustment tab, set mash water to your total liquor volume and sparge water volume to zero. Your total batch volume should be your target post-boil volume.
5. Yeah, your water looks really good. Just remember to use a carbon filter (chlorine) or camden tablets (chloramine) to remove those nasty chlorine/chloramines.

What does it say your Cation/Anion Difference is on the water report input sheet?

 

[kangabrew]

Thanks!

2. Yes. If they report total alkalinity or temporary hardness as CaCO3 this calculation can give you approximate values to plug in for bicarbonate and carbonate in the top section.

But since I already have bicarbonate reported I can skip this, right?

I don't have Camden tablets at home, but I have some sodium metabisulfite. Any info on the dosage (per gallon or liter of water) and time?

What does it say your Cation/Anion Difference is on the water report input sheet?

Do you mean on the adjustments tab?

 

[jmitchell3]

Not sure on dosage.

No on "water report input" tab

 

[kangabrew]

I am sorry, but I can't find where this is written. Is there a cell with this number somewhere?

 

[jmitchell3]

It's the sheet where you input your water info. Below the lines that you ask about in #2 above

 

[kangabrew]

I just realized that I can't see this information because I don't have the upgraded version of Bru'n (the one you get if you donate).

 

[jmitchell3]

It should be there. Instrucitons are tab 0, tab 1 is "water report input". Here's a photo from my free version 1_16 of Bru'nwater (see attached)

 

[kangabrew]

That's only available if you donate (then you will be sent an upgraded version).

I only have the free version: https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/home/files/Brun Water 1.17a.xls?attredirects=0&d=1

 

[jmitchell3]

Oh. It was in the free version 1.16 which is what i have not in the new free version 1.17. Ugh.

 

[jmitchell3]

I can send you the free 1.16 or you can look on the interwebs for it. It would be good to get and check that number, if its low enough your water input is likely good.

 

[ajdelange]

Water report (ppm if not stated otherwise):
Ca 25.0
Mg 3.9
Na 10.5
HCO3 59.0 (stated as "alkalinity")

Alkalinity is measured by a lab and the bicarbonate concentration, which gives rise to most of the alkalinity, is calculated from the alkalinity measurement and the pH. A robust analysis program will ask you for alkalinity and pH. Most of the popular programs ask for bicarbonate and use it as a sort of proxy for alkalinity in their mash pH calculations. Bru'n water goes so far as to provide a separate calculator which computes (correctly) the bicarbonate concentration from alkalinity and pH but you enter this calculated bicarbonate level into the part of the program that does the heavy lifting.

1. The pH is 8.5, is that information not required?

Yes, it very definitely is but used as described above. The problem with using bicarbonate as a proxy for alkalinity is that while it is pretty accurate (a percent or so) most of the time the approximation becomes poorer as the pH moves outside the 7 < pH < 8.5 region.

 

[kangabrew]

I can send you the free 1.16 or you can look on the interwebs for it. It would be good to get and check that number, if its low enough your water input is likely good.

I tried to search for the 1.16 version with no luck. It'd be awesome if you can send it to me

Alkalinity is measured by a lab and the bicarbonate concentration, which gives rise to most of the alkalinity, is calculated from the alkalinity measurement and the pH. A robust analysis program will ask you for alkalinity and pH. Most of the popular programs ask for bicarbonate and use it as a sort of proxy for alkalinity in their mash pH calculations. Bru'n water goes so far as to provide a separate calculator which computes (correctly) the bicarbonate concentration from alkalinity and pH but you enter this calculated bicarbonate level into the part of the program that does the heavy lifting.




Yes, it very definitely is but used as described above. The problem with using bicarbonate as a proxy for alkalinity is that while it is pretty accurate (a percent or so) most of the time the approximation becomes poorer as the pH moves outside the 7 < pH < 8.5 region.

Thank you for your answer.
So in other words, should I let the program calculate my CO3/HCO3 with the aid of hardness and pH, or am I better off just using w/e value I have from the report? The approximated HCO3 concentration is 93 (converted °dH to CaCO3 according to http://www.cactus2000.de/uk/unit/masswas.shtml)

 

[mabrungard]

Doh! Sorry about that. All that extra info and results that most new users don't need or want, was stripped from the free 1.17 version to make the program appear less complicated to the new user. Unfortunately, I obviously did not remove the various sentences in the Instructions that refer to that deleted info. I guess I'll be uploading an update in the next few days.

By the way, the newest version has had all form controls removed from the program. Those form controls (drop-down boxes and slider buttons) were reported to users as being Macros. Those controls often did not work in some of the spreadsheet software that users employ to run Bru'n Water. The new version should be simpler and cleaner for the new user. Those that upgrade, will get the more informative (and busier) user interface. Of course, most of those users will have already familiarized themselves with the program and the extra info shouldn't scare them. Then, its an extra tool for the user.

 

[jmitchell3]

Doh! Sorry about that. All that extra info and results that most new users don't need or want, was stripped from the free 1.17 version to make the program appear less complicated to the new user. Unfortunately, I obviously did not remove the various sentences in the Instructions that refer to that deleted info. I guess I'll be uploading an update in the next few days.

By the way, the newest version has had all form controls removed from the program. Those form controls (drop-down boxes and slider buttons) were reported to users as being Macros. Those controls often did not work in some of the spreadsheet software that users employ to run Bru'n Water. The new version should be simpler and cleaner for the new user. Those that upgrade, will get the more informative (and busier) user interface. Of course, most of those users will have already familiarized themselves with the program and the extra info shouldn't scare them. Then, its an extra tool for the user.

Is that also an update to the Pro version or just the free one?

 

[mabrungard]

There has already been minor pruning of items from the Supporter's version. This update of the free version is to bring the user interface layout for the versions closer to the Supporter's version and get rid of things that we brewers shouldn't worry about, like SO4/Cl ratio, RA, and how RA compares to historic waters.

The major upgrade for the Supporter's version is that it will enable brewers to save and recall the data from their various brew sessions. That way, you don't have to input stuff every time you brew or have dozens of spreadsheet versions. That feature will require the use of Macros and it will definitely run best on Excel. However, the rest of the program will still run fine without macros.

 

[kangabrew]

mabrungard: Thank you for the clarification

jmitchell3: My Cation/Anion difference is 0.07

 

[kangabrew]

So I will brew a Kölsch this weekend and I used the Yellow Full profile in bru'n. Since I don't want to dilute, I will not be able to satisfy all minerals. Is there any particular mineral I should prioritize? I have provided an example in the following screenshot. I increased the lactic acid until i got green color in the pH box, but now I have -60 in bicarbonate. Is that OK?

 

[jmitchell3]

So I will brew a Kölsch this weekend and I used the Yellow Full profile in bru'n. Since I don't want to dilute, I will not be able to satisfy all minerals. Is there any particular mineral I should prioritize? I have provided an example in the following screenshot. I increased the lactic acid until i got green color in the pH box, but now I have -60 in bicarbonate. Is that OK?

The primary items of concern are calcium (>50ppm) and getting your mash pH lined up. What you have looks good and none of your other numbers are too high, so id say go for it!

 

[kangabrew]

Thanks. I ended up doing exactly that