First time cider brewer, possible issue..

[WCStuckey]

Good afternoon everyone, I recently brewed a raw unpasteurized cider with wine and mead yeast in hoping to get a somewhat sweet cider along the lines of Strongbow. This is my first time brewing cider but I have been a home brewer for over six years. On brew day everything was completely sanitized as usual I put everything together and let it ferment for a week, put it in my secondary and let it go for another five days for clarity primed it and bottled it. It has been bottled for a month and I took one out to try it last week and noticed this little cloudy blob at the bottom, everything else was clear except the bottom it was a little loose mass that could easily be broken apart but it did not look like any kind of harmful bacteria or mold.

After seeing the mass in that bottle I believed it was a fluke so I checked out the rest of the batch and they all have that same little mass on the bottom. I am not sure what it is and was curious if any of you cider makers could explain it to me. It does not look like any kind of normal sediment. Through much research I have not heard of this happening to anyone else. I am wondering if this batch didn't produce a Vinegar mother because it was unpasteurized cider. Can anyone help me?

The cider ended up turning out very very dry with a strong alcohol taste it was a reminiscent taste of cherry soaked vodka.

Thank you all very much
Take care and have a wonderful day..
William

 

[madscientist451]

Hey William, welcome to the word of cider. That blob at the bottom of your bottles is yeast and cider solids that are settling out. The strong alcohol or "hot" taste along with the dryness comes from fermenting too fast, at too high a temperature and the selection of yeast.
Don't worry though, you are on the right track.
You left out some details of your process, did you add sugar or anything to the cider?
Also, there's no "brewing" in cider, its more like wine making than beer brewing.
Anyway, good cider starts with good juice. I press my own apples and its somewhat of a hassle and time consuming, but its the only way to get the juice blend I want. If you're skipping that part, just get the best juice you can find. This time of year is best as I believe the late season apples make the best cider. If any orchards in your area are still pressing, stock up now. You can freeze the cider for later use. I don't add sulphites to my cider, but many cider makers do. I make a starter with about a quart of juice and my selected yeast, and when its going good pitch the yeast and that's all there is too it. If you have WL002(or something similar) left over from beer brewing you can re-pitch that. WL 775 cider yeast is good, but will produce a very dry cider. Keep your temperature low, like 58-60. The fermentation should go slow and steady. My first cider of the season, pressed in October, took a month to go from 1.053 to 1.020. I was using WL 002. I moved the carboy to a slightly warmer spot and got it to 1.010 after another month and now it tastes pretty good. I racked it to another carboy and will bottle it soon figuring it will bottle condition and carb up some.
Many people report that they can make cider they like using inexpensive apple juice from Costco or Walmart, wine yeast and some other ingredients, but that never worked for me, I just didn't like the taste. But everyone has different tastes, maybe experiment with different juices and yeasts and see what you like.
So get some good juice, ferment slow and cool, don't be in a hurry follow usual sanitation practices and you'll have good cider in a few months.

 

[Maylar]

Sediment in your bottles is from not waiting long enough before bottling. Cider takes more time than beer, 11 days is nothing. My last batch I racked to secondary after 3 weeks and bottled after 2 more weeks and there's some light sediment in the bottles after bottle conditioning for a month. Gonna drink them at Christmas and I'll tell my guests to pour slowly into a glass and leave the last inch behind. It happens sometimes.

Cider does not leave any sweetness when it's done. Unlike beer, the sugars in apples are 100% fermentable. If you want some sweetness then you have to deal with that at bottling time to add it back in.

 

[WCStuckey]

Thank you both for your input it was really informative and helpful. I got my cider from the local orchard and it was fresh squeezed as I know the owner. I did use sugar to prime it before bottling a little less then a 1/4 cup corn sugar boiled in 2 cups of water before adding it to the cider before bottling. I also added a cinnamon stick in the primary to give it just a hint of flavor as a after taste.

I know what sediment looks like from brewing beer it is a firm compact small layer of dead yeast and waste at the bottom of your bottle. This is more of a cloudy mass floating at the bottom of the bottle. I will add pictures to show what I am talking about. I didn't realize fermenting at a higher temp caused such a distasteful element when cider making. Very interesting . I will probably end up making an apple cider vinegar with this but I would still like to know if what you see in the picture is normal of most ciders because I will attempt this again next year. I just have too many beers planned to do it before next fall. Thank you all for your help and you have a phenomenal resource here I love what you have all made here..

 

[bernardsmith]

If you press apples then the juice that you express is dark and the liquid is almost opaque. This is caused by particulates of the fruit that drop out of suspension over time and with the application of pectic enzymes... but over time - perhaps 12 months - or even longer sediment will continue to drop out of suspension and if you bottle any fruit wine too early even after months of aging where the bottom of your carboy is absolutely clear, you will still likely find sediment (lees) dropping out of suspension.
I am not a chemist but I suspect that in the aging process (ie after the yeast has used up all the sugar) chemical changes are still taking place and acids are being metabolyzed and other flavor molecules are being created and broken down and those changes result in different chemicals being formed with the result that liquids solidify and solids liquify and all kinds of flotsam and jestum appear in the bottle and settle...

Rather than allow your cider to become apple vinegar you might stabilize it with K-meta and K-sorbate and bench test the cider to see how much sweetener you might add so to bring forward the apple flavor. Treat the sediment much like you treat the sediment in a bottle of home brewed beer... You pour carefully and avoid the pouring the last inch ..

 

[Maylar]

I know what sediment looks like from brewing beer it is a firm compact small layer of dead yeast and waste at the bottom of your bottle. This is more of a cloudy mass floating at the bottom of the bottle...

The sediment (lees) that you get in cider depends a lot on the yeast you used. Some yeasts make a compact layer like you're used to, some make a light fluffy lees that's easily disturbed. And as bernard mentioned, there's also apple pectin haze that takes time to settle.