First taste of a Saison

[moti_mo]

Boulevard's Tank 7
Bruery Saison de Lente
The DFH/Stone/Victory collaboration - Saison de Buff
Great Divide Collette
Funkwerks Saison

All of these are amazing new world interpretations of saison. Such a great, diverse style, I can't get enough of it these days.

 

[AdamWiz]

Such a great, diverse style, I can't get enough of it these days.

Agreed. I drink saisons year round, but especially when it's hot out. It's kind of strange that with it being such a diverse style, beer judges seem to have a pretty narrow interpretation of what it should be. If it's not a Dupont clone, they all seem to want to call it off-style. I have had so many different types of saisons, and I've basically liked them all. Right now my favorite is Collette.

 

[a_potter]

Hennepin! Friggin great.

 

[moti_mo]

Agreed. I drink saisons year round, but especially when it's hot out. It's kind of strange that with it being such a diverse style, beer judges seem to have a pretty narrow interpretation of what it should be. If it's not a Dupont clone, they all seem to want to call it off-style. I have had so many different types of saisons, and I've basically liked them all. Right now my favorite is Collette.

I haven't had that experience yet. The one that I entered into the NHBC last year judged well, and it was pretty unique, with a bunch of interesting stuff thrown in. The one that I just kegged is my favorite though. 1.067 to 1.004 - thank you Wyeast 3711 - so its amazingly dry and quenching. No adjuncts this time so the yeast shines through. It drinks way too easily for how alcoholic it is, I need to temper my intake since I have a keg to come home to every day after work.

Edit: And yes, Collette is a great beer. I live within biking distance of Great Divide, so I spend a good bit of time at their tap room on weekend afternoons.

 

[FlemingsFinest]

Edit: And yes, Collette is a great beer. I live within biking distance of Great Divide, so I spend a good bit of time at their tap room on weekend afternoons.

Must make for some tough bike rides home!

 

[AdamWiz]

The one that I entered into the NHBC last year judged well, and it was pretty unique, with a bunch of interesting stuff thrown in

It's not all the time - but it seems that I hear saisons called off-style more often than a lot of beers despite it being one of the most varying styles. I think that some judges have it pounded into their heads that a lot of saisons are too sweet, so they go out of their way to find that flaw in a lot of the saisons they taste. Just because one tastes sweeter than another, that doesn't necessarily mean that one is true to style and one isn't. Varyation within a style is a good thing. That is why saison is such a great style - never gets boring or predictable.

-and you are lucky to be so close to Great Divide. I don't think I've had a beer of theirs I didn't like. I really hope that the rumor about them stopping distribution in Michigan is not true. But just in case, I've started working on a recipe to try to come close to Collette. I'm actually pretty lucky too - I live 2 miles from Bell's eccentric cafe. What great times we live in to be a beer lover!

 

[moti_mo]

It's not all the time - but it seems that I hear saisons called off-style more often than a lot of beers despite it being one of the most varying styles. I think that some judges have it pounded into their heads that a lot of saisons are too sweet, so they go out of their way to find that flaw in a lot of the saisons they taste. Just because one tastes sweeter than another, that doesn't necessarily mean that one is true to style and one isn't. Varyation within a style is a good thing. That is why saison is such a great style - never gets boring or predictable.

-and you are lucky to be so close to Great Divide. I don't think I've had a beer of theirs I didn't like. I really hope that the rumor about them stopping distribution in Michigan is not true. But just in case, I've started working on a recipe to try to come close to Collette. I'm actually pretty lucky too - I live 2 miles from Bell's eccentric cafe. What great times we live in to be a beer lover!

I'm always torn with the style thing. Its good to have something in mind when brewing a particular style, but sometimes it takes the fun out of it to consistently worry about whether or not it you've brewed to style or not. Especially, like you say, with something like saison that is so diverse, and especially if you're brewing otherwise-great beers that just get knocked b/c of an overly strict adherence to style.

Man, wish we got Bell's here in CO. That's always disappointed me that its one of the major, obviously stellar, breweries that just doesn't distribute here. I understand that breweries base their distribution strategies on a variety of factors so I can't fault them, but man, I love some Bell's and wish I could get it on a routine basis.

 

[moti_mo]

Must make for some tough bike rides home!

Tough indeed. The toughest trips home are after the GABF. Two years ago, we tried to get a cab, got impatient and started walking to meet some friends at a bar (b/c we needed more alcohol?), got tired of walking and caught a cab for the last two blocks (not kidding) to the bar, tried to get a cab after a couple of ill-advised drinks at the bar, got impatient and started walking home, got tired of walking and caught a cab for the last four blocks home.

Good times.

 

[DizzyPants]

The NB Saison got high marks so I ordered it, and I have good news and bad news. After 35 batches or so it is by far the best beer I have ever brewed by far! 10 gallon batch, one in the keg and one down in storage. Bad news, my regulator broke four pints in and I have to wait for a replacement from the east coast and I live in Seattle. Wamp.

~Diz

 

[jd3]

today I bottled the NB Petite Saison d'Ete Extract Kit w/ Specialty Grains. Tasted before bottling and I am very pleased with it. I used the 3711 yeast and am pleased I did. Also added 4 oz of corn sugar during end of boil to up the alcohol(seems common on this kit).

I also added .5 oz of bitter orange and a dash of coriander too. I am very pleased with the end result. By fare my favorite brew so far(I've done about 6 extract/specialty grain kits).

Even before bottle conditioning this is a superb beer with a large depth of flavor.

 

[AdamWiz]

I understand that breweries base their distribution strategies on a variety of factors so I can't fault them, but man, I love some Bell's and wish I could get it on a routine basis.

I am starting to think the issue might be that breweries don't like to ship to other areas that have a lot of craft breweries of their own to compete with. I really think that may be the reason why a lot of out of state breweries don't distribute here in MI anymore. We have too much competition here. Or it may be that there is such high demand for craft beer now that they can sell enough beer right in their own area. Why spend money shipping when you sell plenty of beer in your own state? The good news is that Bell's is expanding yet again, and that could mean wider distribution.

 

[peregrinebio]

Since we're talking saisons.

I'm planning to brew Jamil's saison from Brewing Classic Styles once it gets warm enough here for a hot fermentation. I was wondering about whether or not to make a starter. I'm planning on using wyeast 3711. Will underpitching help bring out the esters and phenols like it does in a hefeweizen or should I make a big starter to ensure I get high enough attenuation to really dry it out?

 

[AdamWiz]

I would definately make a starter to ensure full attenuation since it so crucial to a good saison. I think the esters come from the warm fermentation, not the pitching rate. Also, I think I remember the saison in BCS having an OG of over 1.060 - I wouldn't go without a starter on a gravity that high. Another thing I have heard some people do with saisons is to pitch more yeast towards the end of fermentation to attenuate it further and dry it out. With my upcoming attempt at a "Collette" clone, I am going to try blending some different saison strains. Maybe pitch both WY3711 and WL565, plus some dregs of a couple different saison bottles.

 

[PhelanKA7]

Ommegang's Hennepin is one of the best beers made by an American brewery in my opinion.

I wasn't a big fan of Hennepin. It's far too sweet imo.

 

[bh10]

Since we're talking saisons.

I'm planning to brew Jamil's saison from Brewing Classic Styles once it gets warm enough here for a hot fermentation. I was wondering about whether or not to make a starter. I'm planning on using wyeast 3711. Will underpitching help bring out the esters and phenols like it does in a hefeweizen or should I make a big starter to ensure I get high enough attenuation to really dry it out?

The 3711 will attenuate around 85-90%, I wouldnt bother with a starter unless your doing a 10gal batch or a real high O.G.. I first saison went to 1.004fg from 1.052og, with a starter, 2nd one went from 1.055og to 1.002fg w/out a starter, and that one had zero sugar additions to it compared to the other which had 1lbs.

 

[scrambledegg81]

The 3711 will attenuate around 85-90%, I wouldnt bother with a starter unless your doing a 10gal batch or a real high O.G.. I first saison went to 1.004fg from 1.052og, with a starter, 2nd one went from 1.055og to 1.002fg w/out a starter, and that one had zero sugar additions to it compared to the other which had 1lbs.

On a similar note, when I ordered AHB's Summer Saison kit a few days ago, I noticed they have an option for "double pitching" (i.e. 2 vials of yeast instead of 1) for anything with an OG over a certain level. Seems a bit redundant if you're smart enough to use a starter, but for Saison's which are (if I remember right) supposed to be on the dry side, would 2 vials that be a decent option? Was using White Labs Belgian style Saison strain, if it helps.

 

[peregrinebio]

On a similar note, when I ordered AHB's Summer Saison kit a few days ago, I noticed they have an option for "double pitching" (i.e. 2 vials of yeast instead of 1) for anything with an OG over a certain level. Seems a bit redundant if you're smart enough to use a starter, but for Saison's which are (if I remember right) supposed to be on the dry side, would 2 vials that be a decent option? Was using White Labs Belgian style Saison strain, if it helps.

If you're making a starter then you're safe. I think that option is for those that don't know how to make one. I think the key to dryness is keeping your mash temp low.

And seriously (I'll prob. get bashed for this) but I'm not sure how necessary starters always are. I just started making them, but before have had great success with just pitching WL vials without adverse effects. I've taken a Belgian golden from 1.073 to 1.006 and even a 1.110 KBS clone down to 1.028. I meant to make a starter on that last one, but brewday arrived and I had forgotten:cross:

 

[bourgeoisbee]

If you like the esters/spiciness of Saisons under pitching and/or pitching warm can help bring those out more too.

 

[bh10]

If you like the esters/spiciness of Saisons under pitching and/or pitching warm can help bring those out more too.

Under pitching yes, keeping it warm I didnt like, at least with the 3711. Threw some weird esters and even worse a hot fuse bite. I emailed Wyeast about it and they said they had the same results, keep 3711 im the mid to high 60's, IMO.

 

[bourgeoisbee]

Good to know, fusels are bad on a few levels. I really like wlp565, and IMO 75-80F is fine to pitch at for that monster. I'm branching out and comparing a few saison yeasts this summer, so I'll be sure to keep 3711 from ramping up too high.

 

[elproducto]

I don't know. I just brewed a 3711 Saison, and started at 68 and ramped up to almost 80 (I was fermenting a Strong Golden at the same time). Even 1 month after brewing, and it has very little to no fusels that my pedestrian palate can detect. Nice and dry/tart, with some real peppery notes.

 

[AdamWiz]

And seriously (I'll prob. get bashed for this) but I'm not sure how necessary starters always are. I just started making them, but before have had great success with just pitching WL vials without adverse effects.

I actually am not positive about how necessary starters are either, but I have just basically always used them and liked the results. Why mess with success? But the few times where I have forgotten to make a starter before brew day, I have just pitched a WL vial and it has always been fine as well. Never gone without a starter on anything over about 1.055 though. I think it's because when I first started brewing, I got a lot of my info from Jamil Z., and he is absolutely obsessed with pitching rates and starters. Kind of scared me off going without one.

 

[jtakacs]

I think it all depends on how much yeast characteristic you want.... good or bad.

 

[sudndeth]

There's a brewery in Ft. Bragg, Ca that makes a great saison. http://www.northcoastbrewing.com/beer-LeMerle.htm Probably one of the best I've had. I made one a while ago that was amazing. But, it got an infection in the Keg...At least it was good for a few weeks. Also, for a great session saison try the one by flying fish. Farmhous Ale.
http://www.flyingfish.com/beers/seasonals.html

 

[peregrinebio]

There's a brewery in Ft. Bragg, Ca that makes a great saison. http://www.northcoastbrewing.com/beer-LeMerle.htm Probably one of the best I've had. I made one a while ago that was amazing. But, it got an infection in the Keg...At least it was good for a few weeks. Also, for a great session saison try the one by flying fish. Farmhous Ale.
http://www.flyingfish.com/beers/seasonals.html

I forgot about Le Merle. +1 to that and just about everything else from North Coast. I've seen some of there other beers out here in VA, but never Le Merle.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

To me the SA rustic saison tastes like a mockery of what a real saison should taste like. Also I'm not 100% certain, but maybe 95% that it's fermented with safbrew t58.

 

[Houblon]

If it's not a Dupont clone, they all seem to want to call it off-style. .

Agree 100%

and now for a sample of off-style saisons....:fro:

 

[Houblon]

A couple more

 

[AdamWiz]

To me the SA rustic saison tastes like a mockery of what a real saison should taste like.

I just tried one the other day, and I thought it was pretty tame for a saison but still a decent beer. It obviously is not a prime example of a saison, but I can see what they're going for - a saison-type beer that is still approachable for the average macro drinker. Sam Adams can't really go too far out with any of their beers because they have to appeal to a wider range of people. I wouldn't go out of my way to buy or order one, but I wouldn't turn it down, either.

 

[cbraun77s]

The trouble with this style, is there is a vast variety of interpretations. For me, if there is a clove note noticeable- i don't care for it. I prefer a peppery saison or other note replacing it. I also prefer it on the drier side. In my HB, I have found that fermentation temperature is key, as well as yeast selection. Be careful with the "saison" yeasts, they can impart high clove notes if you don't have the right temps. I have also experimented with Ginger in my Saison with fantastic, personally desired results. To where as, this is one of my favorite beers. Good luck.

One of my favs is a local for me, McKenzie Brew House's Saison Vautour. It has an awesome, spicy yeast that I will get a hold of!
Brew Strong, myfriends
Chris