first lager!

[devilsbeltbrewing]

brewing my first lager this friday and had a few questions and am open to any tips as well. i plan on doing a 5 gal all grain brew. with 8 pounds of 2 row pale malt, 2 pounds rye, 1smoked cherry wheat malt, half pound crystal10 and half pound crystal40 =12 pounds total. is there any need to do step mash or just one mash rest. i will be making a yeast starter 32hr before brewday and will feed with yeast nutrient at peak fermentation. also converted an old fridge into a fermentaion chamber and plan to ferment at 50degrees for 10 days then raise temp to 65 for a 2 day diacetyl rest rack into secondary and age at 50 degrees for 2 weeks , cold crash and keg! should i let it sit in secondary longer? hope it all goes smooth

 

[eluterio]

Looks interesting. I wouldn't worry about doing a step mash most modern malts are well modified. Just oxygenate the wort good luck!

 

[McKnuckle]

Mandatory reading for any new lager brewer:

http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

Sounds like you've got a plan. I agree about doing a single infusion mash your first time. Focus on the yeast and temps (and read the linked article!).

 

[Schreiner]

Lots of opinions on when to do the diacetyl rest. I wouldn't set a hard number of days you are going to hold at 50. IMO, try to start raising the temp when you get 3/4 of the way to what you expect for FG.

I am on day 5 of a vienna lager ferment, and expect to start ramping up the temp tonight. At day 10 your beer may be clearing up already. Starting when the yeast is still in suspension give it more contact to take up the diacetyl.

 

[devilsbeltbrewing]

Thanks for the tips i don't plan on holding my self to any certain number just go by my knowledge and what i can see. i am just trying to develop a solid method . any tips for my yeast starter. ive read alot about decanting the wort off yeast cake and just adding that. usually i make about 600ml of starter i know that is kind of small but its the biggest flask i have. and in the past i just pitch the entire 600ml to wort, hope it wont make a diff. last question and i know it is based on personal preference but how much hops will make it well balanced. i dont want a lot of bitterness but just a little aroma break through the malt flavor profile. i was assuming 4 oz for a 5 gal batch?

 

[BrunDog]

I think a few more days for the D rest is better. I think you could have it in secondary longer and colder. Also I think Schreiner's point about yeast in suspension is a valid one.

I followed the brulosophy method and it worked perfectly.

 

[kombat]

Looks good. My comments: Give it more than a couple of days for the D-rest. I leave mine for a week. Other points: Make sure you oxygenate (not just aerate) well. Build a HUGE starter. And don't bother with secondary. After the diacetyl rest, just rack it to the keg, hook up the CO2, and stick it in the fridge. Lager it in the keg, under the protection of CO2, and let it carbonate at the same time. Just try not to sample it for 2 weeks. Then, the whole time it's in the fridge, it's effectively "lagering."

 

[devilsbeltbrewing]

thanks for the lagering tip very interested in trying that.

 

[Mainer]

I just bottled my first lager, a Vienna Lager, which also happened to be my first beer. I left it in primary (~65F) for 21 days, which I fear was a little too long, then in secondary (~50F) for 28 days, which might have been a little too short. I suspect it's going to come out with more of an ale profile. Still, it tasted pretty clean at bottling.

 

[BrunDog]

The times were ok but the temps were a bit wonky. Anyway, if it's good, it's good.

 

[Pappers_]

Hi @devilsbeltbrewing and welcome to HBT! I moved this from the HBT Announcements and Feedback forum to the All-Grain Brewing forum. I, too, have recently gotten into the wonderful world of lager brewing - on Tuesday night, my brew partner and I brewed a Dortmunder Export and it is, hopefully, plugging away right now.

 

[eluterio]

ive read alot about decanting the wort off yeast cake and just adding that. usually i make about 600ml of starter i know that is kind of small but its the biggest flask i have. and in the past i just pitch the entire 600ml to wort, hope it wont make a diff. last question and i know it is based on personal preference but how much hops will make it well balanced. i dont want a lot of bitterness but just a little aroma break through the malt flavor profile.

Answer 1) When making your yeast starter your key notes, make sure you have fresh yeast to begin with. When you have the capacity to only make a 600ml starter the fresher is better and you might have to get multiple packs of said yeast. http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/ is a good calculator to figure out how much yeast you will need. Im going to just take a stab and say get 2 yeast packs. If you wort is going to be around 1.045 this should be ok if it is fresh. Fresh being within 3 weeks. When I make my starters I will grow it put it in my chamber to get acclimated to the temp, decant, then pitch. Jusy my practices and I brew tons of lagers. I just finished up 9 lagers in 3 months.

Questions for you - Whats your starting gravity and what kind of hops are you using? How much are the Alpha Acids? What type of yeast will you be using?

 

[kombat]

any tips for my yeast starter.

Sure: The bigger, the better!

The general rule of thumb for yeast pitching rates is 4 billion cells per point of original gravity, per 5 gallon batch, for ales. For lagers, double it.

So for a 1.040 lager, you'd require 4,000,000,000 * 40 * 1 * 2 = 320 billion cells.

usually i make about 600ml of starter i know that is kind of small but its the biggest flask i have.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that will be woefully underpitching. It will still work, but if you plan to keep brewing lagers in the future, I would strongly encourage you to get your hands on a much bigger flask. I use a 5,000 mL flask for my starters, and for lagers, it's filled to the brim.

and in the past i just pitch the entire 600ml to wort, hope it wont make a diff.

It will, of course - otherwise why would people bother with the bigger starters? However, it will still be fine, I'm sure.

last question and i know it is based on personal preference but how much hops will make it well balanced.

That's impossible to answer without knowing the style you're brewing, the recipe, the alpha acid content of the specific breed and crop of hops you're using, etc.

I just bottled my first lager, a Vienna Lager, which also happened to be my first beer. I left it in primary (~65F) for 21 days,

Sorry Mainer, but that's not a lager. You've gone and brewed yourself an ale. If you actually used lager yeast, then I suspect 21 days was way longer than necessary. That yeast would've been more than finished in the first week.

then in secondary (~50F) for 28 days, which might have been a little too short.

No need to secondary at all, 50° F should've been your primary fermentation temperature for 2 weeks, then let it warm up to 65-70° F for a week, then bottle and store at 70+° F for 2 weeks to carb up then into the fridge at close to 32° F for a couple more weeks to "lager" in the bottles.

I suspect it's going to come out with more of an ale profile. Still, it tasted pretty clean at bottling.

I'll be very interested to hear how this batch turns out. But if you truly have the capability to hold the beer at 50° F consistently and accurately, then you should have started at 50° F in the first place with lager yeast.

 

[Gavin C]

brewing my first lager this friday and had a few questions and am open to any tips as well. i plan on doing a 5 gal all grain brew. with 8 pounds of 2 row pale malt, 2 pounds rye, 1smoked cherry wheat malt, half pound crystal10 and half pound crystal40 =12 pounds total. is there any need to do step mash or just one mash rest. i will be making a yeast starter 32hr before brewday and will feed with yeast nutrient at peak fermentation. also converted an old fridge into a fermentaion chamber and plan to ferment at 50degrees for 10 days then raise temp to 65 for a 2 day diacetyl rest rack into secondary and age at 50 degrees for 2 weeks , cold crash and keg! should i let it sit in secondary longer? hope it all goes smooth

Hey there and welcome to the forum!

I have been brewing quite a few lagers lately and really enjoy the process.

Read all the braukaiser has. His information is solid, well researched and incredibly useful. Read braukaiser.

Pitch cold, ferment cool (50F) and pitch a ton of yeast. err on overpitching.

Shy away from preplanned schedules. Let your eyes and gravity readings dictate when to ramp temperatures (if you decide to ramp)

Recipes. Personal tastes are very different but I use little to no crystal malts in my lagers. When I use them it has been typically 1% melanoiden to mimic a decoction. Your recipe has a lot of crystal malts. Carapils seems to get thrown into a lot of lager recipes. I don't believe it's needed at all.

No crystal does not mean no body or head retention

I get the beer off the yeast as soon as it's done and after a short spell (2-3 days) ramping to 68F. Into the keg for lagering and carbonation at 34F

I like the results this gives me.

There are a lot of different approaches to making lagers. Here are examples of some fermentation profiles that can be used.

From the technical university of Vienna via Braukaiser

Here are two recipes for lagers covering some of the points I've mentioned in more detail should you wish to explore further.

Helles Dunkel

Here's my last Pilsner and a Vienna Lager to get the juices flowing.

I really like lagers. Best of luck with your brewing.

 

[Mainer]

Sorry Mainer, but that's not a lager. You've gone and brewed yourself an ale. If you actually used lager yeast, then I suspect 21 days was way longer than necessary. That yeast would've been more than finished in the first week.

No need to secondary at all, 50° F should've been your primary fermentation temperature for 2 weeks, then let it warm up to 65-70° F for a week, then bottle and store at 70+° F for 2 weeks to carb up then into the fridge at close to 32° F for a couple more weeks to "lager" in the bottles.

I'll be very interested to hear how this batch turns out. But if you truly have the capability to hold the beer at 50° F consistently and accurately, then you should have started at 50° F in the first place with lager yeast.

Yeah. My buddy who was teaching me to brew told me to keep it at room temp for 3-4 weeks for primary. Everything else I read told me to keep it around 60 for 10-14 days, then drop it to 40-50. I think he must be mostly an ale brewer.

I was eager to get if off the trub earlier, but since I was borrowing his carboy as a secondary fermenter, I had to wait til he dropped it off.

:smack:

Oh well. That's why they call it beginner. Hopefully I made myself a nice amber ale.

 

[devilsbeltbrewing]

-_

 

[devilsbeltbrewing]

Thanks Gavin for all the great info, i plan on brewing quite a few lagers so using your info to alter my habits will be fun. do you do any low temp mash rests or just one simple conversion?

 

[Gavin C]

Thanks Gavin for all the great info, i plan on brewing quite a few lagers so using your info to alter my habits will be fun. do you do any low temp mash rests or just one simple conversion?

No worries. I've a lot to learn about lager making. I use a variety of mash profiles. There is a link to a thread on step mashing in my signature below. I enjoy experimenting in this way.

 

[devilsbeltbrewing]

Looks good. My comments: Give it more than a couple of days for the D-rest. I leave mine for a week. Other points: Make sure you oxygenate (not just aerate) well. Build a HUGE starter. And don't bother with secondary. After the diacetyl rest, just rack it to the keg, hook up the CO2, and stick it in the fridge. Lager it in the keg, under the protection of CO2, and let it carbonate at the same time. Just try not to sample it for 2 weeks. Then, the whole time it's in the fridge, it's effectively "lagering."

Thanks for the knowledge and tips. just have once question. once racked into keg for lagering stage what PSI do you hold the co2 at?

 

[kombat]

once racked into keg for lagering stage what PSI do you hold the co2 at?

I just use regular carbonating pressure: 12-15 psi. I carbonate while lagering. It doesn't harm the beer at all or affect the lagering process, so why not kill two birds with one stone?