first lager...
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I think it all comes down to minimal vs. optimal vs. practical. As a beginning brewer, I made a 1.5 L starter; a step in the right direction over just shaking the vial and throwing it in, but no, not a four gallon starter which would have been the absolute best considering my OG and desire to ferment at the lowest temperature possible given my equipment. The trade-off? Maybe my FG will not be as low as I expected, maybe there will be some haze or cloudiness left, maybe some off-flavors. .. .. my point is that we noobs learn what we can, use what we can, learn from that, and then make the next batch better/stronger/faster/more tasty. You can probably make a decent, delicious lager without pitching a huge starter at 50 degrees. Will it be an award-winner? Probably not. Will it be fresher and more tasty than what you can get out of a store-bought bottle or can, probably so. This is a lot like training for a marathon. You may only be able to do a 5K run at a walking pace at first. But, you work at it, learn, get better each time, and finally reach your goal. The point is to continue to learn and improve and enjoy the time doing it.
Something tells me I need to step off my Town Crier box....
Something tells me I need to step off my Town Crier box....
arturo7
Well-Known Member
Although I won't be attempting my first lager for another 2-3 weeks, nothing stops me from obsessing on it now...
I plan to use dry yeast, S-23. and I will not make a starter. According to Mr. Malty, I should pitch 4 packs for an 11 gallon batch.
Anyone see a problem with this?
I plan to use dry yeast, S-23. and I will not make a starter. According to Mr. Malty, I should pitch 4 packs for an 11 gallon batch.
Anyone see a problem with this?
pkgmsu2000
RDWHAHB
beautifully stated, nice perspective for a noob like me.
"this game is supposed to be fun, damnnit"
everfrost
Active Member
And how do you (anyone) make your starters?
pkgmsu2000
RDWHAHB
i think (?) i got some good advice over the weekend at northern brewer in milwaukee. for a czech pilsner i was told you use liquid yeast smack packs and not worry about starters for a first batch.
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
OK, Here I go on the path of the lager. It looks like the "path of the warrior" not too much to the right nor too much to the left, keep the balance. Any suggestions on where to start?
Reading here, there everywhere I have so far:
1) Prepare a good healthy starter
2) Pitch at lower temp than fermentation to reduce or avoid a DR
3) Primary ferm for 2 weeks
4) Secondary Fermentation/Lagering for 1 week for each 10 gravity points
5) Once it's done then I'm planning to bottle it up instead of kegging.
I have a horizontal freezer and a set of temperature controls to keep the temperature controlled.
Ah, something to mention as well, besides being my first lager this will be my first homebrew.... :rockin: Too much at once?
All ideas are welcome as well as suggestions!
Cheers!
Allegrini
Good to see this thread revived! I am now lagering a 15 gallon all grain Maibock, and have picked up a few things in the nearly three years since the last post.
Make your starter out of the same grain as what is going into the batch, and ferment the starter just as you would the actual brew.
My lager profile now is 2-3 weeks at 50 degrees, 3-4 days at room temp (d-rest), transfer to secondary, and then lager as close to freezing as possible for at least six weeks. A batch of Oktoberfest I did last year lagered for six months and it was clear and crisp and buttery smooth.
Good on you to try such a brew on your first go!
Make your starter out of the same grain as what is going into the batch, and ferment the starter just as you would the actual brew.
My lager profile now is 2-3 weeks at 50 degrees, 3-4 days at room temp (d-rest), transfer to secondary, and then lager as close to freezing as possible for at least six weeks. A batch of Oktoberfest I did last year lagered for six months and it was clear and crisp and buttery smooth.
Good on you to try such a brew on your first go!
Hi there glad to hear that you are still going!
Can I pick your brain on a few things?
1) Regarding Primary vs Secondary: Is it necessary to rack the beer to a secondary after a couple of weeks or can I leave it on the primary? I can create a separate fermenter to do that but I'd prefer to avoid contamination etc etc.
2) I'm attempting a Sam Adam's Clone I found here in HBT, by MC if I'm not mistaken and it calls for:
2.1) Primary Fermentation: 14 days @ 50F
2.2) Additional Fermentation: 3 days @ 68F (gradual increase)
2.3) Secondary Fermentation: 30 days @ 42F
I'm a little scared to have to rack my first attempt.... Any suggestions?
3) Starter, OK this one is complete newbie question. You mention:
"Make your starter out of the same grain as what is going into the batch, and ferment the starter just as you would the actual brew. "
So should I make the whole process of mashing etc etc to create a little wort then chill it out and use in the starter or acquire a DME that represents the style I'm after? A bit confused here... I read some places to use DME to create the starter and circa 2L of it for a 10,5 gallon batch size.
The recipe is: Sam Adams Boston Lager clone
Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast 2308
Yeast Starter: 2L
Batch Size (Gallons): 10.5 (~40 Liters)
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.005
IBU: 21
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 5.6
Yeast: Wyeast 2308
Yeast Starter: 2L
Batch Size (Gallons): 10.5 (~40 Liters)
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.005
IBU: 21
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 5.6
Once again thanks and let's keep this lager thread alive!
:rockin:Believe me, there are people with a ton more experience here, but I will take a shot at your questions...
Primary - secondary is an on-going debate. The way I feel about it is this: For most ales that do not have additional ingredients - fruit and so on - primary is fine for the complete fermentation. For lagers, one of the goals is to have the beer as see-through as possible, and this means getting it off the trub once the majority of fermentation is complete. Wine makers may rack a half dozen times to achieve clarity; a peach mead I just did was racked four times.
The fermentation schedule for the SA clone looks fine, though I would go longer and lower for the lagering phase.
Starters, yes, most make them out of DME. There is a perception of a DME "twang" - - a slightly undesireable flavor - when using extracts, which is really evident once you switch to all-grain. My thought is this... grow the starter, the yeast, in the same environment that they will be expected to grow and do their thing in the beer. Since this latest was an all grain batch, I used the same grain for the starter by making a small batch of 1.048 OG wort and fermenting it just like the big batch. When it came time to pitch, I swirled and added the whole starter. Since the grain used was the same, as well as the fermentation profile, I did not introduce any chance of off-flavors or different flavors.
As earlier in this thread, it all depend on what you have. You can make a really good lager as you describe, for sure.
Primary - secondary is an on-going debate. The way I feel about it is this: For most ales that do not have additional ingredients - fruit and so on - primary is fine for the complete fermentation. For lagers, one of the goals is to have the beer as see-through as possible, and this means getting it off the trub once the majority of fermentation is complete. Wine makers may rack a half dozen times to achieve clarity; a peach mead I just did was racked four times.
The fermentation schedule for the SA clone looks fine, though I would go longer and lower for the lagering phase.
Starters, yes, most make them out of DME. There is a perception of a DME "twang" - - a slightly undesireable flavor - when using extracts, which is really evident once you switch to all-grain. My thought is this... grow the starter, the yeast, in the same environment that they will be expected to grow and do their thing in the beer. Since this latest was an all grain batch, I used the same grain for the starter by making a small batch of 1.048 OG wort and fermenting it just like the big batch. When it came time to pitch, I swirled and added the whole starter. Since the grain used was the same, as well as the fermentation profile, I did not introduce any chance of off-flavors or different flavors.
As earlier in this thread, it all depend on what you have. You can make a really good lager as you describe, for sure.
this one is the peach mead, after racking four times. This started fermentation with 10 pounds of peaches that were mashed; there was a bunch of floating bits that only time and careful racking left behind. Again, no filtering, just patience... and about infection risks, minimal, if you have your process down. I know it is easy to turn and burn a grain to glass ale in a matter of weeks, but for me, what the eyes perceive is all part of the drinking experience.
BreslinBrewer
New Member
Hoping for a little guidance for my first lager, Better Brew Oktoberfest. My brew has gone through an abnormal 10 days and I'm not sure whether its worth anymore time and effort. Lets start with a recent Sunday and call it Day 1 - Brew Day.
Day 1 - Followed kit instructions. Cooled wort to 60F, sprinkled in the one supplied yeast pack and stir vigorously. Put the lid on the bucket with airlock and set in my temperature controlled fermentation chamber. However, my ETC was not working how I had hoped, so I shut it off. The brew sat in my basement with ambient temperatures in the low to mid 60s.
Day 2 - In the afternoon I fixed the ETC and set it to 53F per the instructions in kit. At this point there is no fermentation. Day 3, 4, and 5 go by, and still no fermentation.
Day 5 - My hydrometer reading has risen from OG 1.054 to 1.060. I'm not sure this is possible, but regardless there clearly isn't any fermentation happening. I contact my LHBS friend and he suggests I raise the temp back up to 60F.
Day 6 - In the morning the temp reads 57F. I re-pitch a pack of Saflager S-23 yeast that afternoon. This time I rehydrate the yeast in a cup of warm water for 15 minutes. I stir this into the wort and set the temp to 63F per the yeast instructions.
Day 7 - I can smell a change but there is no movement in the airlock.
Day 8 - Alas, the airlock is bubbling and there is fermentation!
Day 9 - I check it in the afternoon and the airlock has quieted down considerably. I lower the temp to 50F. The yeast specs say no lower than 53, the LHBS guy says 50-55 and then I read throughout these forums that as low as 45 is preferred.
Day 10 - So here we are at Day 10 and I check the airlock this morning. Nothing happening. Not even bubble remnants of gas gone by.
If I was to continue, my plan is to check another gravity reading on Friday, which would be Day 13 from brew date for those counting at home. However, since fermentation started 7 days late, maybe this will be too soon. If I am at least 75% to FG, then I will bring it up to 62F for a 2-3 day diactyl rest. Next I will transfer to secondary and lower temp to 33F in increments of 2 degrees per day. Here I will let it lager for 6 weeks. This will end up bottled, but that is for another thread and discussion.
Among everything else, this will be a true test of my sanitation practices. I am much more informed for my next attempt at lagering through all the research I've done, but too bad I waited until after I brewed. Clearly my fault for being naive enough to think the kit would guide me correctly. Is this brew dead? Thanks in advance for the advice.
Day 1 - Followed kit instructions. Cooled wort to 60F, sprinkled in the one supplied yeast pack and stir vigorously. Put the lid on the bucket with airlock and set in my temperature controlled fermentation chamber. However, my ETC was not working how I had hoped, so I shut it off. The brew sat in my basement with ambient temperatures in the low to mid 60s.
Day 2 - In the afternoon I fixed the ETC and set it to 53F per the instructions in kit. At this point there is no fermentation. Day 3, 4, and 5 go by, and still no fermentation.
Day 5 - My hydrometer reading has risen from OG 1.054 to 1.060. I'm not sure this is possible, but regardless there clearly isn't any fermentation happening. I contact my LHBS friend and he suggests I raise the temp back up to 60F.
Day 6 - In the morning the temp reads 57F. I re-pitch a pack of Saflager S-23 yeast that afternoon. This time I rehydrate the yeast in a cup of warm water for 15 minutes. I stir this into the wort and set the temp to 63F per the yeast instructions.
Day 7 - I can smell a change but there is no movement in the airlock.
Day 8 - Alas, the airlock is bubbling and there is fermentation!
Day 9 - I check it in the afternoon and the airlock has quieted down considerably. I lower the temp to 50F. The yeast specs say no lower than 53, the LHBS guy says 50-55 and then I read throughout these forums that as low as 45 is preferred.
Day 10 - So here we are at Day 10 and I check the airlock this morning. Nothing happening. Not even bubble remnants of gas gone by.
If I was to continue, my plan is to check another gravity reading on Friday, which would be Day 13 from brew date for those counting at home. However, since fermentation started 7 days late, maybe this will be too soon. If I am at least 75% to FG, then I will bring it up to 62F for a 2-3 day diactyl rest. Next I will transfer to secondary and lower temp to 33F in increments of 2 degrees per day. Here I will let it lager for 6 weeks. This will end up bottled, but that is for another thread and discussion.
Among everything else, this will be a true test of my sanitation practices. I am much more informed for my next attempt at lagering through all the research I've done, but too bad I waited until after I brewed. Clearly my fault for being naive enough to think the kit would guide me correctly. Is this brew dead? Thanks in advance for the advice.
