First lager, bottles gushing opening at room temp

[stpug]

These also have more sediment than my normal beers, and I do not know why...I only slightly disturbed the trub while siphoning.

It sounds as though you may have had a renewed fermentation after bottling. You had mentioned that your FG was higher than expected (1.020), and that you had bottled with 5 oz priming sugar for 5 gallons (IIRC). The priming sugar rate would have given you well\high carbonated beers, but not gushers. It's possible that the introduction of oxygen and little bit of rousing caused by bottling may have got the yeast going again. One way of checking would be to take another FG reading on one of your beers. The priming sugar may skew the reading a little bit but I'm sure we could figure out the numbers. Probably the easiest way to take another reading would be to first chill a beer so it doesn't gush; then pour into a thin-walled container (glass coffee pot maybe); then submerge the container in hot water for an hour or so (you're aiming for warm beer; 85F maybe); stir occasionally throughout the hour to encourage the release of co2 from solution; when you feel the beer is warm (not hot) and the co2 has been mostly released then chill the beer back to ~60F using an ice-water bath; once you're at 60F then pour into your hydrometer tube and take another reading. While this won't fix your overcarbonated problem, it may tell you if fermentation was renewed in the bottle on the original beer sugars.

 

[barhopping247]

It sounds as though you may have had a renewed fermentation after bottling. You had mentioned that your FG was higher than expected (1.020), and that you had bottled with 5 oz priming sugar for 5 gallons (IIRC). The priming sugar rate would have given you well\high carbonated beers, but not gushers. It's possible that the introduction of oxygen and little bit of rousing caused by bottling may have got the yeast going again. One way of checking would be to take another FG reading on one of your beers. The priming sugar may skew the reading a little bit but I'm sure we could figure out the numbers. Probably the easiest way to take another reading would be to first chill a beer so it doesn't gush; then pour into a thin-walled container (glass coffee pot maybe); then submerge the container in hot water for an hour or so (you're aiming for warm beer; 85F maybe); stir occasionally throughout the hour to encourage the release of co2 from solution; when you feel the beer is warm (not hot) and the co2 has been mostly released then chill the beer back to ~60F using an ice-water bath; once you're at 60F then pour into your hydrometer tube and take another reading. While this won't fix your overcarbonated problem, it may tell you if fermentation was renewed in the bottle on the original beer sugars.

Perfect, I will be doing that in 4 hours.....at least I will be able to figure out what happened....Although no way to fix it, except to drink it...lol

 

[barhopping247]

The burping was definitely a situation of baby steps. I'd spend 20 minutes whenever I had a chance and could see progress each time. Every so often one would take off before I could get it tightened back down, but the opening was small enough that the end result was little more than a string of foam down the side.

If the flavor is good and you can pour a glass like the picture you posted, keep them and drink them within the month. If you notice an increase in "gushiness", invite some friends over to finish them off. I wouldn't dump them unless the flavor turns (not sure why it would at this point) or the carbonation gets out of hand.

I think these will have no problem disappearing in a month......

 

[barhopping247]

It sounds as though you may have had a renewed fermentation after bottling. You had mentioned that your FG was higher than expected (1.020), and that you had bottled with 5 oz priming sugar for 5 gallons (IIRC). The priming sugar rate would have given you well\high carbonated beers, but not gushers. It's possible that the introduction of oxygen and little bit of rousing caused by bottling may have got the yeast going again. One way of checking would be to take another FG reading on one of your beers. The priming sugar may skew the reading a little bit but I'm sure we could figure out the numbers. Probably the easiest way to take another reading would be to first chill a beer so it doesn't gush; then pour into a thin-walled container (glass coffee pot maybe); then submerge the container in hot water for an hour or so (you're aiming for warm beer; 85F maybe); stir occasionally throughout the hour to encourage the release of co2 from solution; when you feel the beer is warm (not hot) and the co2 has been mostly released then chill the beer back to ~60F using an ice-water bath; once you're at 60F then pour into your hydrometer tube and take another reading. While this won't fix your overcarbonated problem, it may tell you if fermentation was renewed in the bottle on the original beer sugars.

If this WERE an infection.....what am I looking for?

 

[stpug]

If this WERE an infection.....what am I looking for?

Without having any other information to go on, it doesn't seem like you have an infection - just a little refermentation in the bottle.

If it were an infection you may see a ring around the bottle where the beer stops in the neck. You may sense some kind of "off" characteristic in the aroma and taste. But, again, it doesn't sound like an infection to me.

 

[barhopping247]

Without having any other information to go on, it doesn't seem like you have an infection - just a little refermentation in the bottle.

If it were an infection you may see a ring around the bottle where the beer stops in the neck. You may sense some kind of "off" characteristic in the aroma and taste. But, again, it doesn't sound like an infection to me.

Ok, for sure there is no "ring" around the neck. As I had mentioned, I bottled a few in clear bottles so that I could keep track of the clarification. It looks crystal clear...minus the sediment in the bottom of the bottles.

 

[Qhrumphf]

It's a subtle white ring that you may not notice until the bottle is empty. It's possible to have a gusher infection that you don't taste or smell. I don't remember which wild yeast it is, but it eats through dextrins without producing any notable off-flavors (outside of the carbonic bite that comes with excessive carbonation).

Let us know what happens after you degas and recheck the gravity. Priming sugar would theoretically drop the gravity slightly, but probably less than you could read with a hydrometer. So if you're below your 1.020, then you know you've got something still working. If you're still at 1.020, then you can probably burp your bottles and be ok.

 

[barhopping247]

Ok. So here is the deal. The hydrometer is now reading 1.010.....which is where it was supposed to finish. However. I imagine this is a problem at this time.

Soooooo now what are my options?

 

[Qhrumphf]

Was that at reference temperature and thorougly degassed? Because if it dropped 10 points in the bottle, plus residual CO2 and priming sugar, I would have expected bottle bombs. I'd venture that's somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 volumes of CO2 in those bottles, well more than your average beer bottle can withstand.

If you've got residual CO2 and you're off in the temp (did you warm it up as @stpug suggested?) and were too warm, and didn't get all the CO2 out it could screw up the reading.

 

[barhopping247]

I racked it back and forth for a while between glasses to degass. I took the reading when it was cold still. I'm leaving the hydrometer in the glass while it warms to see if it changes....I'll post again shortly. However, so far we are still at 1.010

 

[barhopping247]

Racked the beer back and forth pretty hard and retook measurement. Still 1.010

 

[barhopping247]

Also used 3 different hydrometers. All the same.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Edit in bold, wahoo
Hmm...then it does indeed seem that you bottled too soon or you picked up a gusher infection. I'd venture to say it's the former. Definitely keep those bottles as cold as you can (if you can go near freezing that would be ideal). That level of carbonation is asking for bottles to explode, and even in the fridge that may be possible.

Just for reference now that I have the chance to do some math, a rate of 0.58 ounces per gallon of corn sugar will add about 1 volume of CO2. Corn sugar also provides 46 ppg towards gravity. Thus, at 0.58 oz per gallon, you're adding 1.7 to the gravity. So for every 1.7 points in gravity consumed by the yeast, you're adding approximately 1 volume of CO2. Assuming a 5 gallon batch, bottled at 5 oz, is 5 oz corn sugar into 4.5 gallons after loss to yeast (give or take), you're adding 1.11 oz/gal, you're adding approximately 1.9 volumes. That's in addition to the residual CO2. Worst case scenario, say you bottled at 50F, that's 1.2 volumes residual (likely less than that in reality), but that's as much as 3.1 volumes of CO2 from priming and residual CO2 alone. That's Belgian or Hefe level of carbonation, too high for a lager. High enough to be effervescent, but usually not enough to gush. Even if you assume the residual CO2 from the highest temp (best case scenario) it's still 0.81 volumes CO2, for about 2.7 volumes, on the highest end of appropriate lager carbonation (and still too high for most beers).

However, if you add in an additional 10 points from continued fermentation in the bottle (let's call it 9 points, assuming modest gravity reduction from priming sugar), you're adding 5.3 volumes of additional CO2, in addition to the 2.7-3.1 volumes from residual priming sugar, you're still looking at ~8 volumes of CO2. That's above typical champagne levels of carbonation. No wonder you have gushers.

Your average beer bottle (ie not a thicker Belgian styled or champagne styled bottle) really should not be primed to above 3 volumes (a little higher might be ok but not good to do regularly). How some of your bottles haven't exploded is beyond me.

 

[barhopping247]

I bet that if I would have left them at room temp they would have exploded....no doubt in my mind.

 

[barhopping247]

Thanks for all your help. At least now we know the situation.

 

[mdbrewer1]

Drink quickly, my friend.

 

[barhopping247]

Yeah...I think what's not drank after the weekend is getting dumped.

Then back to bottling a Canadian Ale to re-fill the empty space in my storage room. Lol.