First hefe batch - overbearing Banana

[jamesk9]

I just brewed my first batch - I chose a LBS's hefe recipe... It called for WLP320 yeast but they were out and they substituted the WLP300 and said it would produce a similar beer..

Bottled last night and snuck a glass to taste and it had an overbearing Banana taste.. after reading I found that the banana flavors come from the esters, which correct me if Im wrong, come from the yeast multiplying..

My question, could I reduce this banana flavor by overpitching using this same yeast so it doesn't have to multiply as much (I rinsed 4 pints of this for future use).. Or is it just a characteristic of this wlp300 yeast?

Im looking for a pauliner type taste

 

[jamesk9]

Also I fermented at 72... I know there is a discussion as to if the temp effects the clove/bananna taste.. But it looks like that is just an old-wives-tale

 

[zvanness]

I bottled my first batch this weekend as well, and it was also a hefe (Franziskaner clone), and it too tasted of bananas from what I sampled.

I love the banana taste. Paulaner tastes like bananas to me!

I don't know the answer to your question but good luck!

 

[viking999]

Also I fermented at 72... I know there is a discussion as to if the temp effects the clove/bananna taste.. But it looks like that is just an old-wives-tale

My first two beers had an overbearing banana flavor, but none have since then. The only significant thing I changed from the second to the third was the fermentation temperature. Also, both were all extract beers with supposedly clean fermenting yeasts. So my experience says it's anything but an old wives' tale (although I didn't experience any clove flavor).

But it's true that the hefe yeasts are a big contributor to the banana/spice flavor. I would say the strain and temperature are both big factors. Given that you used a hefe yeast, it's hard to say if the yeast or the temperature caused it. I will say this, though. I just took my first taste of my dunkelweizen made with WLP300, and there was almost no banana flavor. I fermented a bit colder than normal for a hefeweizen (66-ish instead of 68-70) in the hopes that the banana flavor would be more subtle, but I think I may have overdone it.

 

[phatuna]

a warmer ferment creating esthers (aka banana smell) I think is a scientific fact and has been hashed over on HBT. Many Hefe brewers like the banana smell so they ferment a bit warmer (like you did at 72).
Keep in mind that your beer will change greatly between now and when it is ready to drink, the banana smell should calm way down. But if you don't like that smell, ferment at lower temps. Just do a search to find out ways to do that.

 

[Boodlemania]

If you ferment the same recipe, including WLP300, at say 65F versus 72F, you'll be amazed at the difference in taste.

 

[jamesk9]

Thanks for the replies. I have a batch brewing at 72 again right now with the wyeast 3068. I did notice that the bathroom where it is fermenting also smells like bananas.. If this batch (5days fermenting) comes out the same, I can rule out the wlp300, and nudge the temp down. It sounds like the temp may be the culprit Wife is already griping about the 72 degree electric bill during the summer (we live in houston area) Oh well....

 

[springer]

Thanks for the replies. I have a batch brewing at 72 again right now with the wyeast 3068. I did notice that the bathroom where it is fermenting also smells like bananas.. If this batch (5days fermenting) comes out the same, I can rule out the wlp300, and nudge the temp down. It sounds like the temp may be the culprit Wife is already griping about the 72 degree electric bill during the summer (we live in houston area) Oh well....

Do yourself a favor search swamp cooler the higher your ferment temps are the more pronounced the esther /banana taste and smell

my beers have greatly improved because of temperature control

 

[jamesk9]

Sounds neat.. goggling it as we speak.. how often do you need to repack the ice/ice packs, 2 times a day?

 

[Whiskey]

It depends on the ambient temp.

If the room is already "cool", you may not need ice, the evaporation can be enough, especially if you use a cooler for the container. However if the room is warm (garage for instance) and you are using say 1/2 gallon milk jugs, twice a day sound about right. You can improve the cooling a bit by pointing a fan at the carboy. I found that at least with my cooler, an old Polypropylene fleece sweater worked better then a t-shirt, which makes sense given that that material is made for wicking away moisture.

 

[Boodlemania]

IIRC, Wyeast 3068 and WLP300 are the same strain.

 

[springer]

Sounds neat.. goggling it as we speak.. how often do you need to repack the ice/ice packs, 2 times a day?

this time of year my basement is 66° I still use the swamp cooler but no ice the water stays an even 63-64° because its on the cold floor. When the A/C is on even with the registers closed its 58° so then I use nothing to control the temps. My main problem is in winter the wood stove is in the basement and it gets to 80° even in the closed off room.

 

[jamesk9]

IIRC, Wyeast 3068 and WLP300 are the same strain.

perfect... another curve ball in my new batch.. The fermenter (the batch with 3068) WAS sitting in an empty bathtub, so I have since filled it up with water and draped a towel over, it ambient in the room is 73.. Its probably too late to make a difference but will definitely shoot for a cooler batch next time..

is there a cross reference table for the diff yeast mfgs?

I bought wyeast 3056 and 3068 while I was there, but didnt realize 3068 was the same as wlp300
live and learn

 

[Pangea]

Thanks for the replies. I have a batch brewing at 72 again right now with the wyeast 3068. I did notice that the bathroom where it is fermenting also smells like bananas.. If this batch (5days fermenting) comes out the same, I can rule out the wlp300, and nudge the temp down. It sounds like the temp may be the culprit Wife is already griping about the 72 degree electric bill during the summer (we live in houston area) Oh well....

OK, another thing is that you're measuring the room temp at 72. That means you're definitely hotter inside the carboy or bucket. May only be a few degrees, but I wouldn't say your fermentation is at 72 if your house is at 72. Probably more like 74 or more in your beer. I vote your bananas are coming from fermenting too hot and can probably be toned down with lower temps. You're probably at the upper end of ideal temp range for that yeast.

That being said - I just did a honey weizen that had serious banana smell during fermentation - in a fridge at 65, measured with a stopper thermowell (so I was measuring temp inside the carboy)!!! I think it depends on the yeast strain as well as temp! I used WYeast 1010 American Wheat.

 

[KingBrianI]

perfect... another curve ball in my new batch.. The fermenter (the batch with 3068) WAS sitting in an empty bathtub, so I have since filled it up with water and draped a towel over, it ambient in the room is 73.. Its probably too late to make a difference but will definitely shoot for a cooler batch next time..

is there a cross reference table for the diff yeast mfgs?

I bought wyeast 3056 and 3068 while I was there, but didnt realize 3068 was the same as wlp300
live and learn

Here you go!

Yeast Strains

 

[jamesk9]

Alright thanks guys.. and thanks for the cross-ref chart.. Im sure my temp was a little too high, Im sure it will be drinkable when I finally pop a top..

one last newbie question... as Im sure everyone does, I love the yeast in the bottom of my paulaner bottle.. When these homebrews are ready, do I still rouse the yeast as I do in a store bought bottle? Or do I decant the beer leaving the yeast behind?

 

[phatuna]

James, a lot of people decant (Revvy's got a good tutorial on how to pour a homebrew), but it is your beer and drink it any way that you enjoy it. They say that the yeast is good for you so no problems.

 

[sundaybrewingco]

I usually swirl the yeast leftover in the bottle and pour it back into the beer (a la Allagash White). But I learned my lesson last weekend after drinking about 12 of my Fat Tire clones and dumping the yeast back into the glass (a solid day's worth of "mud butt")

 

[KingBrianI]

Bottle conditioned homebrew should be poured just like a similar bottle conditioned commercial. So if you would normally swirl the yeast and pour it into the glass, as in a hefeweizen, do it for the homebrew too. If you wouldn't normally do it, like in pale ales or bitters, decant the beer off the yeast.

 

[android]

wlp300 = wyeast 3068

if you're fermenting at 72 again, it will likely turn out the same. you have to be really careful with that yeast strain, it's description is 'banana esters dominate this yeast flavor profile' or something similar.

and remember, 72 ambient = ~78-82 inside the fermenter.

also, from my experience, the banana flavor doesn't subside much with time. plus, hefe's are "better" younger, so if you have to wait for the banana flavor/smell to mellow, the beer will be out of its peak by the time you've waited for that.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I ferment Wyeast 3068 at 62º to produce my desired ester profile. It makes a HUGE difference with this strain.

 

[android]

BK, is that ambient temp or actual fermenting beer temp?

 

[WBC]

My big beef with many brewers is temperature control. Most go by room temperature. Fermentation is EXOTHERMIC (producing heat). In the fist days of fermentation it can be as high as 8 degrees F above the surrounding air outside the fermenter and then as the yeast has less sugar after the third day the activity lessens and the head will fall. It is this time when the esters are produced and depending on the strain of yeast this flavor can vary. WLP300 produces more bananna above 70F and less bananna and more clove below 70F.

Refrigeration and an accurate controller ( www.rancoetc.com ) are the answer for care free fermentation. Pay the price and be happy forever. It's wort it.

I ferment (Nottingham) my ales from 60F to 62F and they are fantastically clean ales.
Bill C

 

[AnOldUR]

In the fist days of fermentation it can be as high as 8 degrees F above the surrounding air outside the fermenter . . .

The ambient probe is hanging by the refrigerators thermostat with it set at 54 degrees, the other is taped to the side of the carboy.