First experience with liquid yeast, having problems!

[sdufford]

Hi guys, I brewed a batch with liquid yeast (wyeast activator) for the first time the other day, and so far it's not looking good. Here are a few bullet points:

1. Yeast activator pack did not seem to swell at all in the three hours it it sat on the counter before pitching.

2. It's now been over 48 hours, no activity at all- no bubbles , no visual signs on the surface of the wort, NO change in gravity.

Here are my thoughts on potential causes:

1. I ordered this kit from a shop in Maryland, I live in FL. It took 3 days to get here. Could the yeast have perished during the delivery? No doubt it was probably a hot ride down here. Is it typical for brewers to have liquid yeast delivered that far while not being refrigerated?

2. Weak aeration? I whisked/stirred the cooled wort for about 90 seconds or so.

3. Did NOT make a starter, of which I've heard this is almost a must for liquid yeast.

You guys' thoughts? Causes? Next course of action? Should I pitch a packet of dry yeast at some point?

Thanks for your help!

 

[mb2696]

Did you smack the pack?

It didn't really matter, but if you didn't it shouldn't swell

 

[Reelale]

You did smack it right? IIRC, the actual yeast is inside the pillow, with the nutrient outside. Or it may be the other way, I don't remember. I usually spring for the ice pack when I order mine, and try to get it in the refrigerator asap. Starters are definitely the way to go with liquid, but you should have had some activity with a viable smack pak.

 

[Revvy]

First, From the horse's mouth.

From the Wyeast FAQ website:

3. Does the package need to be fully swollen before pitching?

No, The package can be pitched before activating, or at anytime during the activation process. The activation process "jump starts" the culture's metabolism, minimizing the lag phase.

Number 2, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/fermentation-can-take-24-72-hrs-show-visible-signs-43635/, and by visible signs we don't necessarily mean a bubbling airlock.

It IS a sticky at the top of the beginners forum for a reason, afterall.

Third, You should really have made a starter for any beer above 1.020. The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind.

And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days.

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.

But the bottom line is that it is too soon to worry yet. Oh and by the way who cares if your airlock bubbles or not. It doesn't matter whether or not you have a single bubble in the airlock. It's not a magic fermentation gauge, it's a VALVE, and vent to release EXCESS co2, and to keep your ceiling from being painted by your beer. It doesn't matter one whit, whether or not you get a single bubble in your airlock. Plenty of beers ferment without it happening.

If you are really worried, THEN after 72 hours take a hydrometer reading then you will know.


The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....



But next time make a starter, it will prove to you your yeast is ok....since 99.9% of the time it is, despite what many new brewers believe.

 

[sdufford]

Thanks for the pointers Revy. I understand the concept of the airlock and that a lack of bubbles may be meaningless. That's why I took a gravity reading and stated there was no change in gravity. Like you said, I have another full day before I should officially be worried- at that point I will take another reading and look for any change.

Reelale- I did spring for the ice pack on this one and immediately put it in the fridge when I received it. It sounds like liquid yeast delivery is pretty typical then?

 

[Reelale]

Yeah, I think so. I've ordered from Austin in the heat of summer, and it was fine. But I used a starter. I'd follow Revys advice and just wait awhile. It's probably all good, just a little lag time before you notice any activity.

 

[Revvy]

We answer 4-5 threads like yours a day, and they all turn out fine. Like I said, you're not giving the yeast enough time to reproduce yet.

 

[sdufford]

If I see no change over the next few days, should I pitch a packet of dry yeast?

 

[Reelale]

That's usually the solution. I'm still betting you'll see those yeasties getting to work soon. But, definitely, IMO if you have no activity after 72 hours, repitch. Good luck.

 

[brandona33]

I just made an IPA on Sunday morning, used liquid yeast (no starter) and didnt see any airloc activity for 72 hrs. I knew I did everything right (aside from using a starter). Trust the yeast, and they will reward you with delicious beer!

 

[Revvy]

If I see no change over the next few days, should I pitch a packet of dry yeast?

Hydrometer first, then repitch if necessary.....

 

[tvtoms]

Turn off the Barry White music so they'll stop multiplying and start eating, hehe. Good luck!

 

[sdufford]

Well, I must say I am slightly ashamed for not being more patient. My plan was to take another hydrometer reading tonight, and if I see no change, pitch a packet of Notty in and hope for the best.

Sure enough, while at home on my lunch break, I finally saw bubbling....very far apart, but at least some signs of life. I guess at this point I shouldn't bother with another reading, I should let it continue for awhile now and not disturb it.

I am a little curious though, up until yesterday I had been holding it at around 65 degrees via the swamp cooling method, but I figured it'd have more hope of getting started if I just left it alone. So I let it warm back up to room temp (around 70) and now the next day I finally see visible signs...could that have helped it slightly?

If it gets going to a decent clip, should I cool it back down to 65 or just be happy it's started and leave it alone?

Many thanks to all that have helped me so far.

 

[Reelale]

Best thing to do is to leave it alone at a stable temperature suited to the kind of yeast you are using. You probably woke them up but 70 might be a little bit high.

 

[Revvy]

The idea of yeast "dying" is another one of those holdovers from bygone days, when yeast was in cake form, of undetermined origin and traveled in the hot cargo hold of ships for months, and sat on grocer's shelves for god knows how long. Then Charlie Papazian, and other authors wrote about yeast being "finnicky."

Which of course sews seeds of doubt in many a nervous new brewer.

But nowadays modern yeast rarely lets us down. Once again impatience and doubt is replaced by the yeast coming through for us like it usually does.