First ever batch - queries

[OddCoffee]

Hi there, recently started my first batch of homebrew - pretty excited. Now, it's nothing fancy or complicated, seeing as it's the first batch, I wanted to simplify things to ease into the feel of it, so I just bought a can of Coopers (Australian Brewery, where i'm from) pale ale brewing concentrate and their brew enhancer, along with a plastic brewing tub (25lt).

Had it all together in the fermentation vat for 3 days so far, didn't see any action from the airlock in the first day, but now it's going pretty steadily (can hear it bubbling away right now). I've taken the time to read a few of the sticky's, but still have a few questions.

I know it varies between types of beer and brewing processes, but for this type of brewing process, how long should I wait until bottling? I know I should be testing the brew by it's SG every few days, testing and smelling it, but I don't actually have a yardstick about how long it usually should be in the primary vat.

Also, at the moment, it smells a bit funny. Quite floral and/or fruity, which is strange, seeing as the beer this brew is based off isn't at all. I don't think it's ruined at all, just have little idea why it smells this way, haha. Any idea? One theory is; I was a little eager to add the yeast, and the brew was still a little warm from dissolving the enhancers in boiled water, but I am certain it was well under the 28 degree mark (noted in the included notebook as dangerous to the yeast), and I also thought that having a higher starting temp would help activate the yeast quickly. Tested it today and it's starting to taste beer-ish, though. Developing some nice bitter.

And lastly, what's this term 'wort'? I have a vague idea that it's the brew before bottling, but i'm not quite sure....

Cheers, hoping this batch goes well so I can endeavour on with more complex brews in higher quantities. Love me some quality beer!

Connor.

 

[BlackGoat]

Welcome!

Good call on keeping it really simple on your first batch, you'll be happy that you did. You generally should just leave it alone for a couple weeks before checking gravity, you shouldn't be checking it every few days as each time you check you have the potential to introduce contamination into your beer. Besides, its better to leave the beer on the yeast for some time after its done fermenting, as it will clarify and clean up certain off-flavors from fermentation that might otherwise be lingering in there. A general rule of thumb might be to wait two weeks, then do your gravity samples a day or two apart and if they are stable then you are ok to bottle. I typically leave my beers in the primary fermenter for about 3-4 weeks before I check.

As for smelling funny, that is perfectly normal. It should look ugly and could smell like all sorts of things: rotten eggs, sweet smell, various hops smells, etc. Its just the gases that are being produced by the fermentation being vented out, this should have no bearing on the flavor/aroma of the finished product, assuming everything else goes well.

"wort" is your beer before you add yeast. Once yeast is added it officially becomes "beer". So generally, wort is the sugary barley juice.

Good luck!

 

[JLem]

Just wanted to echo the above advice to leave it alone for a couple of weeks. I'll generally take a gravity reading around day 10 and again around day 12. If the reading is stable, I'll bottle when I get the chance...might be two days later...might be 2 weeks later. No need to rush it (but also no real need to let it sit for 4 weeks either...though it is fine if you do).

What temperature are you currently fermenting at? You mentioned that it was below 28C...I hope it is well below that...closer to 20C. Too warm and you'll get a lot of "hot" alcohol production as well as some excessive fruity esters from the yeast (which might be the fruitiness you are smelling).

 

[OddCoffee]

Just wanted to echo the above advice to leave it alone for a couple of weeks. I'll generally take a gravity reading around day 10 and again around day 12. If the reading is stable, I'll bottle when I get the chance...might be two days later...might be 2 weeks later. No need to rush it (but also no real need to let it sit for 4 weeks either...though it is fine if you do).

What temperature are you currently fermenting at? You mentioned that it was below 28C...I hope it is well below that...closer to 20C. Too warm and you'll get a lot of "hot" alcohol production as well as some excessive fruity esters from the yeast (which might be the fruitiness you are smelling).

Thanks for the quick advice, guys!

That's what I thought about the yeast and hotter temperature. The smell has died down a little, so I suppose that problem is working itself out just fine!

Currently, it's brewing at about 20-22 degrees during the day, but it gets quite cold during the night, so I do my best to keep up to 16-18 at night. Again, in the handbook I bought, it was said that as close to 18 as I can get would be optimal, so I think I've got that pretty much covered!

So, now I know what happens when the brew is exposed to too high temperatures, what happens when it's too cold? I assume the yeast would simply become less active and the process would take longer?

One more as it comes to mind, after bottling, I assume it's preferable to drink after about 2 weeks or so? I guess the idea is that it wouldn't really matter that much, as long as the sugar added during bottling carbonates and I don't add too much so it doesn't explode, yes?

 

[brewkinger]

Everything above sounds good.

My input is the temps sound good, but for future reference, the internal temps during early vigorous fermentation can be as much as 10 degrees F higher.
Look up swamp cooler for a cheap way to control your temps.

As far as bottling and waiting goes the general advice is to keep the bottles someplace dark and at least 70 degrees F for 3 weeks minimum and then fridge for 1 week.
In my experience, lighter beers can take a little less and darker beers can take a LOT longer.
I have a brown ale that is 6 months in the bottle and the it finally has mellowed and tasted GREAT!

 

[BlackGoat]

you are correct on your assumption about if it gets too cold, the yeast will slow down and start to fall out of suspension. If its getting really cold, they can stop fermenting the beer altogether so try to keep them in their happy range. Fermenting too warm is a bigger problem than too cold, when you ferment on the colder side you tend to get cleaner beer (something more along the lines of a lager) while on the warmer side you could be producing something that tastes like rubbing alcohol. Once you bottle, you should leave them three weeks at room temperature before drinking them, that will give them the proper amount of time to carbonate. Opening too soon could result in uneven amounts of carbonation: too foamy or somewhat flat. Also, the conditioning time allows the beer to mellow out a bit, so that it tastes better. That said, if you're anything like the rest of us when we started out, you'll pop one open a week or two in out of curiosity - nothing wrong with that, just keep in mind that the others should improve once they've had the proper time to age.

 

[OddCoffee]

Fantastic! I'm pretty bloody excited make some beer, now! Cheers guys, terrific advice. I'm sure i'll have many, many more questions to come after this batch.

 

[JLem]

You're nighttime temperatures sound perfect - the closer you can keep your beer fermenting at those temps, the better your beer will be. Welcome to the obsession!

 

[OddCoffee]

Ha, another question sprang to mind just as I read over the last post. Bottling sugars? Does the type of sugar matter, will they affect the finishing flavours significantly? The instructions of the can said I should be using supplied carbonation drops, to keep things consistent, although I forgot to grab them, haha! Was thinking maybe trying a few different things.
Not sure if there would be much difference between table sugar and raw sugar, but dark brown sugar, palm sugar, treacle, maple syrup, golden syrup, glucose syrup, corn syrup or honey even. I'm thinking they will have all have a slightly different palette signature?

 

[BlackGoat]

The amount of priming sugar isn't enough to REALLY impact the flavor, here in the states we typically use corn sugar which is very neutral. If that isn't easily available to you, I'd suggest just using regular old table sugar for your first batch. Experimentation is great, but I'd get a couple simple batches under you before tinkering around too much.

 

[OddCoffee]

Fair enough, then. Pretty much everything I mentioned is available to me, just not the carbonation drops, haha! But yes, I suppose I should just focus on keeping it simple, ha! Noticing that that's the problem with homebrewing, too much time to think!

 

[BlackGoat]

So many people start off making their first batch and they always want to turn it into a vanilla jalepeno imperial stout aged on more jalepenos. That kind of stuff is really fun to do, but the problem is that if you're doing something that is throwing off weird flavors, you can't really troubleshoot. Making a couple beers that are simple gives you a chance to familiarize yourself with the process and troubleshoot some things (for instance the fermentation temps). Then you can go make your chocolate ice cream beer.

 

[OddCoffee]

Definitely, I'll stick to simple for this one, then we'll see.

Pretty much nailed my two favourite beers right there! Crisp, dry chili lager and chocolate stout.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

The amount of priming sugar is fairly small, so unless you decide to use, say, blackstrap molasses, it is unlikely that there would be a significant effect on the flavor. I have always used corn sugar (which is a mixture of about 90% fructose and 10% glucose IIRC), as it is very neutral in flavor, but there's no real reason I can think of not to use any other fermentable sugar. The amounts you'd want to add would vary, however, as different sugars can vary in composition and structure; syrups and honey in particular would require more, while table sugar (cane sugar, which is almost pure sucrose) would require slightly less.

The amount you would add would also depend on the style. For a pale ale, you would want 2.3 volumes of CO2, which would require 95g of corn sugar or 85g of table sugar. For a Saison, you would want 2.5 volumes, so you would add about 110g of corn sugar; whereas a bitter would want about 2.1 vol., or just 80g. BeerSmith 2 has a tool for calculating the amounts of sugar you need based on the type of sugar and amount of carbonation desired.

If you are going to use any of these sugars (other than the carbonation drops), then the best approach is to dissolve the sugar in boiling water, and add the solution to the beer as a whole just before bottling, rather than trying to add it a little at a time to each bottle. If you have a separate bottling bucket, you would rack the beer off the yeast cake into the bottling bucket first.

Remember to clean and sanitize everything that comes in contact with the beer before using it. I use StarSan as my primary sanitizer, and PBW as my primary cleanser; if you can get those, I highly recommend them, though you may want to vary what you use from time to time to avoid resistant yeasts and bacteria from creeping in.

 

[JLem]

I use plain white table sugar (sucrose)...or sometimes raw/Demerara sugar. But, of course, you can use any fermentable sugar. Flavor impact will be relatively minor, but the type you choose will impact how much you need to use - different sugars are differently fermentable. There are several online calculators that you can use - just search for "bottle priming calculator". Also, you might check out http://www.HowToBrew.com - an excellent, free resource for all things homebrewing.

 

[brewkinger]

So many people start off making their first batch and they always want to turn it into a vanilla jalepeno imperial stout aged on more jalepenos. That kind of stuff is really fun to do, but the problem is that if you're doing something that is throwing off weird flavors, you can't really troubleshoot. Making a couple beers that are simple gives you a chance to familiarize yourself with the process and troubleshoot some things (for instance the fermentation temps). Then you can go make your chocolate ice cream beer.

The amount of priming sugar is fairly small, so unless you decide to use, say, blackstrap molasses, it is unlikely that there would be a significant effect on the flavor. I have always used corn sugar (which is a mixture of about 90% fructose and 10% glucose IIRC), as it is very neutral in flavor, but there's no real reason I can think of not to use any other fermentable sugar. The amounts you'd want to add would vary, however, as different sugars can vary in composition and structure; syrups and honey in particular would require more, while table sugar (cane sugar, which is almost pure sucrose) would require slightly less. The amount you would add would also depend on the style. For a pale ale, you would want 2.3 volumes of CO2, which would require 95g of corn sugar or 85g of table sugar. For a Saison, you would want 2.5 volumes, so you would add about 110g of corn sugar; whereas a bitter would want about 2.1 vol., or just 80g. BeerSmith 2 has a tool for calculating the amounts of sugar you need based on the type of sugar and amount of carbonation desired. If you are going to use any of these sugars (other than the carbonation drops), then the best approach is to dissolve the sugar in boiling water, and add the solution to the beer as a whole just before bottling, rather than trying to add it a little at a time to each bottle. If you have a separate bottling bucket, you would rack the beer off the yeast cake into the bottling bucket first. Remember to clean and sanitize everything that comes in contact with the beer before using it. I use StarSan as my primary sanitizer, and PBW as my primary cleanser; if you can get those, I highly recommend them, though you may want to vary what you use from time to time to avoid resistant yeasts and bacteria from creeping in.

I use plain white table sugar (sucrose)...or sometimes raw/Demerara sugar. But, of course, you can use any fermentable sugar. Flavor impact will be relatively minor, but the type you choose will impact how much you need to use - different sugars are differently fermentable. There are several online calculators that you can use - just search for "bottle priming calculator". Also, you might check out http://www.HowToBrew.com - an excellent, free resource for all things homebrewing.

+1 to all of this.
Slow and steady with the help of some good text, this forum and learning the "basic" processes that make good beer better.
Things like aeration and ferment temp control are very basic principles that you will eventually want to know anyway; you may as well get them learned earlier.
In just over a year, I have gone from kit beers to making delicious all grain brews that are phenomenal.
Basic DIY things like a homemade stir plate and "swamp" cooler that cost me around $40, but made an impact that was well worth that $$!

Make a couple of basic and simple ales to get a feel for the tastes of individual malts and hops. Drinkable beers that drink well, especially when you are brewing that next batch.

Just my thoughts.....
Enjoy and brew often to keep the pipeline filled.
Trust me that you will often want to have a batch fermenting at ALL times like me. I brew at the very least once per month out of a combined passion and NEED!

 

[OddCoffee]

So, just after I finished posting here earlier today, today turned sour. Ended up being an out-of-the-blue 38 degree day. Was pretty twitchy about mah beer! Soon as I got back, temp check. Beer was sitting at a clammy 26...

Not sure if I should be that worried, but the fruit smell, now more distinctively apple, has become quite apparent. Either way, thinking I should make a cheap swampie, unless anyone has any other Ideas. It is currently stored in a room in the middle of the house that isn't used. Used to be a bathroom, so tiled floor and walls.

 

[brewkinger]

Get it into a swamp cooler if possible, but at this point, any damage is done assuming that it has been fermenting for a couple days. Most of the main/initial fermentation is pretty much over, but by all means start the process of keeping it from getting any higher.

 

[OddCoffee]

Hmmmm, right. Oh well, will keep on keeping.

I have an idea, might run it by you guys to see if it's smart at all. I have an extra, working, empty fridge. Large enough to fit the vat with removing the shelves. If I turn the fridge on, during the night and cool it down, then turn it off in the morning and put the beer in it then go to work....would that sound like a smart move? Sounds better than buggering around with a swampie. Just thinking it might have a bit of a funny affect on the brew as it gets moved around, in and out of the fridge.

 

[brewkinger]

Like I said, anything that can keep it in the proper range for the yeast is not going to hurt. Moving it around and stirring stuff up will not matter, it well all settle out again anyway.

 

[BlackGoat]

I'd probably prefer to use the unplugged fridge as a giant cooler and put the beer in there, along with a couple large frozen bottles of water. Running the fridge without proper temp control would chill the beer too much during the fermentation stage.

 

[BlackGoat]

Also, the smell of the beer will change during fermentation anyway, so you really shouldn't necessarily associate the smell coming out of the airlock with the temperature changes. During the peak of the ferment you'll get some funky smells, then towards the end of primary fermentation (usually a few days in) when it is starting to resemble something closer to the finished product, you'll start smelling sweeter fruitier smells like apple. This is all normal.

 

[jrgtr42]

Hmmmm, right. Oh well, will keep on keeping.

I have an idea, might run it by you guys to see if it's smart at all. I have an extra, working, empty fridge. Large enough to fit the vat with removing the shelves. If I turn the fridge on, during the night and cool it down, then turn it off in the morning and put the beer in it then go to work....would that sound like a smart move? Sounds better than buggering around with a swampie. Just thinking it might have a bit of a funny affect on the brew as it gets moved around, in and out of the fridge.

That wouldn't be a bad move, as long as the fridge is set for the warmest it'll go. A better way to go would be to invest in a temperature controller. You don't need a fancy one, all it needs to do is to turn on when the temp goes above a certain temperature, and off when it goes below another set temp.
They aren't expensive, and are pretty effective. Too late for this batch, but it'll help out a lot with the next one.

 

[OddCoffee]

So the other day was a one off for high temps, this week is forecast for around the mid to high 20's, so that's all good on the beer front. Still brought up the fridge anyway, and the beer has been sitting in it (the fridge is OFF and has been several hours before I sat it in there, and it'll stay off. It's just for the insulation) all day and night at a cool 18 degrees.

The fermentation has seemed to slow down a fair bit (around 30 seconds between bubbles, as opposed to 2 every 5 seconds), so that's a good indication that I have only a few days left until the bottling stage yes? I should wait until fermentation slows to about 5-10 minutes between bubbles, correct?

Would like to know what the term 'cold crashing' refers to, what it's purpose is, if anyone is kind enough to shed some light.

 

[MarcusKillion]

Yep what they said .
Plus next time , if you used 2.2 Lbs of sugar that the kit calls for , do not do it . use DME instead and you will find that your beer is far better than the first one using sugar .

 

[JLem]

So the other day was a one off for high temps, this week is forecast for around the mid to high 20's, so that's all good on the beer front. Still brought up the fridge anyway, and the beer has been sitting in it (the fridge is OFF and has been several hours before I sat it in there, and it'll stay off. It's just for the insulation) all day and night at a cool 18 degrees.

The fermentation has seemed to slow down a fair bit (around 30 seconds between bubbles, as opposed to 2 every 5 seconds), so that's a good indication that I have only a few days left until the bottling stage yes? I should wait until fermentation slows to about 5-10 minutes between bubbles, correct?

Would like to know what the term 'cold crashing' refers to, what it's purpose is, if anyone is kind enough to shed some light.

For bottling, you should mostly ignore the airlock - it can't really tell you that fermentation is complete. You'll need to check the gravity..as mentioned earlier, most folks will wait 10-14 days before checking, then will check again a day or three later. If the gravity is stable and near the expected value, you are ready to bottle.

Cold crashing is a technique used to help drop yeast out of suspension. It will yield a clearer beer sooner. The basic idea is that once fermentation is complete, you chill the beer down to close to freezing and hold it there for a few days. Yeast and other suspended particles will settle out and you then bottle/keg the clear beer. This is not a required step - beer will clear on its own given enough time.

 

[OddCoffee]

Yep what they said .
Plus next time , if you used 2.2 Lbs of sugar that the kit calls for , do not do it . use DME instead and you will find that your beer is far better than the first one using sugar .

I didn't use any sugar, no. The kit came with a carton of stuff called 'Brew enhancer' which is light dry malt extract, dextrose and maltodextrin for 'better mouth feel' as quoted on the pack. Smelt fantastic, too!

I already bought another simple concentrate kit (Australian Toohey's Draught), and it calls for Brewieser brewing sugar (Which I did buy). It says in the listed ingredients as mostly 'maize starch', so i'm assuming that is just corn syrup?

 

[BlackGoat]

everything that JLem said. Give it more time, and only trust the hydrometer. The bubbles in the airlock can lie to you. They are fun to watch, but you can't rely on them to tell you when its ready to bottle. Plus, more time is better as far as clearing up the beer and letting it finish up. Sounds like you have the temperature under control, cheers to that!

 

[brewkinger]

So to summarize for you (and those trying to follow along)

Your original post was Nov. 6th and at that point the beer had been going for 3 days; at which point it started bubbling away.

Today makes the 5th day and it sounds like you have had temperatures ALL over the place.

Leave it alone for 10-14 days total like an earlier poster mentioned.

Check the gravity at that point and then again 2 days later. If they are the same, then proceed to bottling.
If not let it go until you get 2 consecutive readings that are the same.
Given the history of temperatures that this beer has seen thus far, the main portion of fermentation (where temp control is CRITICAL) is probably mostly over.

The best thing you can do is maintain a consistent temperature from here on out and leave it alone for about a week to let the yeast clean up after themselves. The "hot" flavors that a previous poster mentioned are not gonna mellow out all that well; other flavors are going to mellow and still others might linger to provide flavors that are not supposed to be there.

In the meantime, slow down and enjoy the ride. Find something to occupy the time; I find planning future brews helps immensely, as does just heading out to the garage to throw together a 3-5 gallon batch and making more beer!
Better yet, take a moment and check out basic threads and stickies to help you understand the whole process better. If you have not already done it, get a copy of Palmer's How to Brew, trust me it is one of the "Bibles"

Here are some to get you started:
Bubbling? is it a sign?

This one

Hope this helps!

 

[OddCoffee]

Cracked the nail, mate. I have set in motion plans to leave the brew for another 10 days. I now know that the smells and airlock bubbling are not to be relied on, but it's still exciting to see things developing, haha! The smell has already developed into a close relation of the beer I know well and love (which is what my brew is based on), so no more weird apple smell, but with the temperature troubles I know not to expect it to be 'bang on'.

Also, as mentioned above, I have already purchased another simple concentrate kit. I plan to get a few of these ones right before I push on with more complex tasks. I think I have learnt enough in this thread (annoying first time questions, sorry, haha!) to crank up another brew without bugging you guys. Have already been chugging through 'How To Brew', it's a great read!

Cheers to you blokes, been some fantastic help!