first crack @ simple weizen style

[uglygoat]

please offer suggestions/experience with tweaking this recipe. i've never done a wheat beer ever, but have grown a liking for them recently. great lakes brewery has an excellent white ale, with the yeast still in the bottle.

this is what i'm starting with, and appreciate any and all feedback.

6 lbs wheat malt
4 lbs pilsner malt
.5 lbs carapils

.5 oz saaz full boil
.5 oz saaz @ 45-30 minutes

3068 Weihenstephan Weizen Yeast

mash: looking for suggestions, not opposed to a single decoction for ****s and giggles. this much wheat will require a rest at the lower end 120-130 for a spell?

 

[cweston]

2 thoughts:

1. Hallertau would be more "authentic" to the style, I think.

2. If you plan to carbonate this very highly, as is traditional to the style, I'd leave out the carapils. Head retention won't be an issue, and I don't really think there's any need to add body, either. Especially since summer's coming, I'd want this fairly crisp to offset the sometimes intense sweetness of the 3068.

I've just started drinking the first few hefes made with 3333. I find it a little too sweet and the phenols a touch medicinal (that may mellow--it's still very young), but SWMBO likes it. If anything, I'd want it to be drier/crisper, not rounder mouthfeel (which carapils would add).

 

[Kaiser]

mash: looking for suggestions, not opposed to a single decoction for ****s and giggles. this much wheat will require a rest at the lower end 120-130 for a spell?

There is a thread where the Baron and I discussed the making of a phenolic Hefe Weizen. You can find a suggestion for a mash schedule there. It's up to your if you want to to the other rests beside the protein and Maltose rest.

Kai

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

I agree with cweston based on my limited hefe experience. The carapils is unnecessary and won't really do anything for this particular grist. I think the Saaz hops will work if that's what you've got, but just make sure you're aiming for ~12IBU. Bitterness just doesn't seem to work with that yeast...you just want to cut the sweetness down a bit and leave all the phenolics that are generated.

 

[uglygoat]

ditchin' the carapils...

the ibu's are estimated at 11... saaz is not the traditional hop for the style either?

 

[homebrewer_99]

Hallertau, Tettnanger and Spalt hops for HWs.

 

[uglygoat]

i'm so poor...

i had to cut the grain bill down to this

5 lbs wheat malt
4 lbs two row

1 oz saaz full boil...

brewed up sunday afternoon during the indians game.

single infusion for two hours at 149-150 F

long slow sparge, over an hour netted about 1.043 which mildly surprised me.... i reckon it boild down to about 1.046-7, forgot the reading after.

it resulted in a nice straw colored, hazey wort, that was really sweet. never seen sooo much hot break before, long snotty looking peices, musta been the wheat malt.

it's bubbling away nicely this morning with about an inch of foam, may need to rig the blow off this evening.

i'll do another batch with the 'traditional' hops on the yeast cake to compare.

cheers for the advice guys.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

I think that should turn out really well! Let us know.

 

[Kaiser]

it resulted in a nice straw colored, hazey wort, that was really sweet. never seen sooo much hot break before, long snotty looking peices, musta been the wheat malt..

Yeah, I also noticed more hot-break during the boil. But at the end, there wasn't much more than usual left in the kettle. Wheat malt has only 10% more protein than barley malt.

Kai

 

[uglygoat]

do you guys scoop any of the frothy foamy hot break off the top? i collected about two quarts of it, before i put the hops in...

just curious what ya'll do..

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

do you guys scoop any of the frothy foamy hot break off the top? i collected about two quarts of it, before i put the hops in...

just curious what ya'll do..

I've done that before...I've even heard it will reduce the likelihood of a boilover. But as I've gotten more laissez faire in my brewing style I now just look at it and hope it falls soon.

 

[Kaiser]

do you guys scoop any of the frothy foamy hot break off the top? i collected about two quarts of it, before i put the hops in...

just curious what ya'll do..

No, I just boil and cause a hot-break after each batch sparging. I collected the foam once and didn't think that it was worth the mess.

Kai

 

[joe s. sausage]

I will soon make my first attempt at this style and am in the process of making a recipe.

Any information with regards to what White labs American hefe yeast will do to the mix.

The grain bill looks like this:
6#wheat malt
3#pale 2-row
1#crystal malt

1oz. hallertauer boiling
1/2oz. hallertaer aroma

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[cweston]

I will soon make my first attempt at this style and am in the process of making a recipe.

Any information with regards to what White labs American hefe yeast will do to the mix.

The grain bill looks like this:
6#wheat malt
3#pale 2-row
1#crystal malt

1oz. hallertauer boiling
1/2oz. hallertaer aroma

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

This will give you an American wheat which has very little of the character of a German wheat beer. That may or may not be desirable to you. If you want a more traditional wheat beer, I'd lose the crystal (for a crisper finish), use a bavarian hefeweizen strain, and possibly eliminate the aroma hops.

There are several American micros that market wheat beers that probably taste a lot like what this one would. I personally find them a little boring, but all that matters is whether or not that's what you want.

 

[joe s. sausage]

Thanks cweston, yes i do want a more crisp finish and i'd like it to be refreshing and yet with texture or mouthfeel, kind of a turbocharged hefe. i'm in the process of developing a recipe and i'd like a representative recipe to start and build and tweek from there.

Could you recommend a bavarian hefeweiss strain?

OK, lose the crystal and get a bavarian hefe yeast- thanks. Any more advice will not go to waste.

 

[cweston]

Some hefeweizen recipes add a small amount of munich or vienna to the grainbill, for a little more complexity without the unfermentables of crystal.

Wyeast:

1010 American Wheat Yeast. A dry fermenting, true top cropping yeast which produces a dry, slightly tart, crisp beer, in American hefeweisen style. Apparent attenuation: 74-78%. Flocculation: low. Optimum temp: 58°-74° F

3056 Bavarian Wheat Yeast. Blend of top-fermenting ale and wheat strains producing mildly estery and phenolic wheat beers. Apparent attenuation: 64-74%. Flocculation: medium. Optimum temp: 64°-74° F

3068 Weihenstephan Weizen Yeast. Unique top-fermenting yeast which produces the unique and spicy weizen character, rich with clove, vanilla and banana. Best results are achieved when fermentations are held around 68° F. Apparent attenuation: 73-77%. Flocculation: low. Optimum temp: 64°-75° F

3333 German Wheat Yeast. Subtle flavor profile for wheat yeast with sharp tart crispness, fruity, sherry-like palate. Apparent attenuation: 70-76%. Flocculation: high. Optimum temp: 63°-75° F

3638 Bavarian Wheat Yeast. Top cropping hefeweisen yeast with complex flavor and aroma. Balance of banana and bubble gum esters with lichi and apple/plum esters and cloveness. Apparent attenuation: 70-76%. Flocculation: low. Optimum temp: 64°-75° F

(White Labs offers similar--maybe even the same--strains)

For a true-to-style Bavarian hefe, I'd go with 3068, 3638, or the 3056 blend. I like the fact that 3068 has the highest attenuation, because I like wheat beers crisp.

 

[joe s. sausage]

How do I go about making a yeast cocktail?

If liquid do i agitate and do an equal volume mixture and an equal weight mixture for dehydrated? I want to start with as true to style as possible and tweek from there, thanks.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

One option for a hefe if you want a bit more malt but want to keep it crisp as cweston points out is to incorporate some Vienna or Munich malt. This would give you something like a Schneider-Weisse...a bit more coppery than a pale hefeweizen, and a bit maltier.

This is what I plan to do once I get acceptable results with my 2-grain (wheat/pilsen) hefe recipe as I really, really like S-W.

 

[joe s. sausage]

Thanks Baron, I do want a more malty crispy thing happening. In what amounts would i include the vienna or munich malt(s)?

Any advice on how to make a yeast mixture?

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Depends on how dark you want it...I think one version could be:

6# wheat
2# Pilsener
2# Munich (~8L, not the darker stuff)

This would give you ~5 SRM according to Promash.

I'm not sure what you mean by yeast mixture/cocktail? I recommend just buying one of the yeasts cweston mentions above and pitching per your usual regimen (which, of course, includes making a starter!).

 

[joe s. sausage]

It's all good, just ignore the mixture/cocktail question, the info that you and cweston have given to me is excellent.

i think what is going to happen is once i get my procedure down i'll brew successive batches with different yeasts.

What do you think about the aging process? how much time in 1*, 2* and keg?

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

What do you think about the aging process? how much time in 1*, 2* and keg?

Based on my limited hefe experience, I suggest fermenting in the primary until the kraeusen drops (could take up to 2-3 weeks with the 3068 I've found), then 1-2 weeks tops in the secondary, just until it clears. By clears, I mean the major particulate matter has dropped out because the beer will still be a bit cloudy, but not murky if that makes sense. If you're going to keg with this, I'd carb it up and drink it at that point. As I said in another thread, this is a beer meant to be enjoyed young and fresh, full of the aromas and flavors.