First all grain smash, hop flavour and aroma has disappeared in primary

[Bertramus]

Hi, I am new to all of this but have found the message boards here invaluable as I launch myself, in at the deep end, into all grain brewing.

So I have joined up as I figure the best way to get a particular question answered is to ask it rather than trawling the net for solutions.

I have a pretty big golden promise/Amarillo smash in late primary. I have probably made a lot of schoolboy errors with my first biab SMaSH but I seem to have eliminated practically all hop flavour.

Now, it's tasting not too bad now but with no real hop presence aside from a good mid bitterness and some fruitiness.

I mashed at 158 and had an og of 1.07. Current gravity is 1.018. It's dropped 2 points in about 10 days. 12 litres went into fermented and I used about 80g of Amarillo leaf (VAC packed) mostly in late additions.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Yooper]

Hi, I am new to all of this but have found the message boards here invaluable as I launch myself, in at the deep end, into all grain brewing.

So I have joined up as I figure the best way to get a particular question answered is to ask it rather than trawling the net for solutions.

I have a pretty big golden promise/Amarillo smash in late primary. I have probably made a lot of schoolboy errors with my first biab SMaSH but I seem to have eliminated practically all hop flavour.

Now, it's tasting not too bad now but with no real hop presence aside from a good mid bitterness and some fruitiness.

I mashed at 158 and had an og of 1.07. Current gravity is 1.018. It's dropped 2 points in about 10 days. 12 litres went into fermented and I used about 80g of Amarillo leaf (VAC packed) mostly in late additions.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

What was the hopping schedule? 80 grams of hops in 12L is not a ton of hops for a 1.070 OG beer, but it should still give hop flavor and aroma. How long has it been in the fermenter? Hops aroma and flavor fades pretty quickly, but it really depends on the timing of the additions and the age of the beer.

 

[Bertramus]

Thanks for the reply. OK, they were .5oz or, more familiarly to me 14g additions at 60, 30, 20, 15, 10, 5 and flameout. Did not stand the hops post flame out and chilled right away. Kitchen smelled amazing but it does not seem to have translated into the beer.

It has now been in primary for 20 days.

Going to dry hop with 50g Amarillo pellet weighted down with marbles. Is there significant risk in opening up the primary to do this?

 

[meatcleaver]

for more hop aroma I'd probably skip the additions @ 20 & 15, instead double up on additions @ 10, 5 & 0.
& definitely dry hop according to plan. no problem there.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Thanks for the reply. OK, they were .5oz or, more familiarly to me 14g additions at 60, 30, 20, 15, 10, 5 and flameout. Did not stand the hops post flame out and chilled right away. Kitchen smelled amazing but it does not seem to have translated into the beer.

It has now been in primary for 20 days.

Going to dry hop with 50g Amarillo pellet weighted down with marbles. Is there significant risk in opening up the primary to do this?

A 1.070 beer mashed at 158 is a big beer, especially as Golden Promise is such a flavoursome malt. 80g of hops is likely to balance the malt, but not dominate. A dry hop will be good (yes, it's ok to open the primary to do this, just try not to shake it too much). 50g dry hop in 12L is a lot (IPA level) - I'd suggest half that amount.

 

[joshesmusica]

as others have said, the problem was your timing on your hop additions.

i normally dry hop 25L with about 60g to give you an idea. 50g will be a lot, but a lot isn't necessarily a bad thing. you don't have to throw them in a bag unless you're trying to save the yeast. if you're not worry about that just gently drop them directly onto your beer and spread them out evenly over the top. let them sit 5-7 days, and then you can cold crash, or package. since you've got such a malty beer, i would just do all 50g.

20 days is impressive for a new brewer! good job!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

as others have said, the problem was your timing on your hop additions.

i normally dry hop 25L with about 60g to give you an idea. 50g will be a lot, but a lot isn't necessarily a bad thing. you don't have to throw them in a bag unless you're trying to save the yeast. if you're not worry about that just gently drop them directly onto your beer and spread them out evenly over the top. let them sit 5-7 days, and then you can cold crash, or package. since you've got such a malty beer, i would just do all 50g.

20 days is impressive for a new brewer! good job!

This is a 12L batch.

I agree with adding them without a bag.

 

[joshesmusica]

This is a 12L batch.



I agree with adding them without a bag.

Hence why I compared how much he wanted to use to my 25L batch...
He's wanting to get some flavor from the hops and learn what they're like, I'm guessing, since it's a smash. There's a lot of maltiness going on with a high OG and high FG, so if were me I would just throw in the 50g hoping to get some balance. But I attempted to make sure he knew that was my opinion, I apologize if it sounded like it was a fact that he must follow.

 

[Bertramus]

Many thanks to all for the advice. Wish I had read them a couple of hours earlier though as I added the hops in a hopsack and it appears sprinkling would have been better. I will definitely take this on board for future brews though. Ended up putting in 1.5oz, 41g, and will leave for 5-7 days before bottling.

Great advice re the hop additions and in future will definitely double up on the late additions and skip the middle ones.

Cheers.

 

[joshesmusica]

Many thanks to all for the advice. Wish I had read them a couple of hours earlier though as I added the hops in a hopsack and it appears sprinkling would have been better. I will definitely take this on board for future brews though. Ended up putting in 1.5oz, 41g, and will leave for 5-7 days before bottling.

Great advice re the hop additions and in future will definitely double up on the late additions and skip the middle ones.

Cheers.

Another thing for the future:
Make it easy on yourself, if you're working in metric just do nice round additions. Screw converting from ounces to grams and having weird measurements!

 

[Bertramus]

Another thing for the future:
Make it easy on yourself, if you're working in metric just do nice round additions. Screw converting from ounces to grams and having weird measurements!

Haha! 41g is indeed a weird amount but there is no science here, this is just what I had left in the freezer from a Chinook/Amarillo beer I made the other night.
Will sample in a few days and if need be will open another pack of Amarillo and 2nd dry hop.

Thanks for the reply and thanks again for all the feedback from everyone. The info that guys impart on the message boards here really is priceless. It has certainly encouraged, and made easier, my journey into all grain.

Cheers.

 

[Bertramus]

Thanks again for all the help and advice.

Quick update. Along with dry hopping I made a hop tea to try to get more aroma. It has been bottle conditioning for a week and I have just cracked my first bottle. The results have far surpassed my expectations! I have created pretty much the beer I was shooting for at my first attempt. Stunning orange/orange blossom and tropical aromas. Great mouthfeel, I am guessing due to my high mash temp?? Finish could be more bitter but to be honest I am not mad for aggressively bitter IPA's.

Delighted!!