First All Grain - Low Efficiency

[TastyAdventure]

I just did my first all grain batch. I've done a few Partial Mashes before, with efficiencies of 60% 75% and 80%. For this first AG batch my efficiency was 60%. I made a bazooka tube with a stainless steel braid from a toilet water supply line for the bottom of my 10 gal Gatorade cooler. The run off was very fast. I hit all my temps and mashed 10 lbs of grain with 15 qts for 50 min. Then I batch sparged with 17 qts. Ended up with probably 6.75 gal of pre boil wort. Boiled for about an hour 20 min, and had to top off with a half gallon in each kettle. (I did two separate boils for 2 separate 2.5 gal batches). Like I said, I got about 60% efficiency and can't figure out why.
Any help would be great. Thanks!

 

[TastyAdventure]

Also, I ran half my grain through my LHBS mill a second time to ensure a good crush. That's the first time I've done that but got lower eff....

 

[mjohnson]

This may be a stupid question, but are your numbers calculated using gravity readings of wort diluted with top-up water? You may want to give your recipe and gravity readings along with the volume information.

If not, did you stir the mash really well? Dough balls can hurt efficiency. If you think this could be a problem, a thinner mash can help.

You may already know this, but there is a difference between mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency. If you are measuring brewhouse efficiency, then you should double check your volumes in your system and make sure you're not leaving a bunch of wort somewhere.

Water profile can make a difference in mash efficiency, but I'd be sure to chase down everything else before monkeying too much with it.

Lastly, one solution for low efficiency is to plan for it and add a bit more grain. Theres no shame in it. I won't tell anyone.

 

[theck]

When doing research on the best ways to do the screen vs false bottom I came to the condition the tube was best. I also read a lot about how much better the actual screens work better than the toilet screens. I got a screen for $12-14 so not much different than a price of the toilet supply. You can see the difference too, I had a couple supplies from a remodel we did and I was going to go that route so tore one apart, the overall diameter is smaller and the holes as well compared. I never used the supply and only get 76ish (80 on my last) but maybe switch to the tube?

 

[theck]

Oh when you empty the tun you need to do it slowly too... Painfully slowly. At least what I was told.

 

[jack_a_roe]

SLOW sparge and make sure mash tun completely drains before u sparge. also adding any water to get ur mash temp right after initial mash in kills efficiency im learning. and of course crush ur own grain is absolutely essential.

 

[mjohnson]

Slow sparging only matter if you are fly sparging. The reason being that you want to ensure that the sparge water is trickling through the grain without creating channels. If you are batch sparging, you can let it rip as fast as your crush lets you (without getting stuck). You can do this because you are stirring up the mash into the sparge water to ensure you're getting any left over sugar into solution before draining.

Adding water to the mash for temp correction shouldn't hurt your efficiency unless you don't adjust your sparge water volume to compensate (you probably don't want to dilute the wort - so subtract any additional water from the sparge water).

 

[opiate82]

I have read a lot of back-and-forth on slow runnings versus letting it rip. I have come to the conclusion that once the grain bed is set (which I generally feel happens during vorlaufing) feel free to let it rip.

I always point to grain crush as the first thing to look at for low efficiency issues. Any crush I've gotten from LHBS/online vendors I would consider to be coarse crushes. Much better results with my own mill. I set my gap at .030" which is almost exactly the thickness of a credit/debit card, so if you are at the LHBS and think they might have a wide-set gap just check it against a credit card (just be careful not to mill your card!).

 

[insanim8er]

Low efficiency can be a number of things...

Crush quality = But you claim it was a good crush. Just because you run it through twice, doesn't mean it's a good crush. You have to look at the grain and make sure the husks are in tact, but the barley is cracked.

Mash Temps = If you're temps are off or your not mashing for proper amount of time can also cause efficiency issues due to the lack of converting the sugars. Sounds like you hit your numbers (assuming your thermometer is accurate) but a 50 min mash seems low? Normally it's 60+.

Doughing in = if you don't make sure to crush and throughly absorb all dough balls created by the powder of well crushed grain, you will also suffer efficiency issues. You have to add the grain very slow while continually stirring.

Water/grain ratio can play into it too...

Another thing, I don't agree with mjohnson at all. Bazooka tubes can cause channeling because it's drawing water in such a small concentrated area. If you let your sparge flow fast, you will create a channel. This doesn't evenly wash the sugar. It basically runs pressure through the channel. This will cause you efficiency issues. You also lucked out you didn't get a stuck sparge.

It can also be a combination of things... But you should do a slow sparge even if you're batch sparging with a bazooka tube because you don't want to create a channel.

 

[MEPNew2Brew]

Having just gone through my first few batch sparges and missed gravity big time on batch one - when doughing in stir "like it owes you money" (in the words of Yooper). Dough balls can be pretty small. Stir, stir, stir.

 

[Jrock817]

My first few all grain batches had horrible efficiency. I have not gotten a grain mill yet, but I add my grains very slowly to the strike water, stirring constantly, and I sparge using a false bottom now, over the bazooka tube I originally had. My efficiencies went from 60's to now high 70's. I need a mill, then It can only be my fault. I just add grain to my base malt, usually a pound or two... It costs like 3 bucks, worst case is you make a stronger beer

 

[TastyAdventure]

Thanks for the help.

I did a mash and then one batch for sparging. So far i am sure that i did not sparge With enough water and as a result did not end up with enough wort.
I'm also using a bazooka tube and have read they may cause problems with channeling.
Do you think that splitting my sparge water into 2 batches would help? IT would result In both sparge batches being thicker... What would be any pros/cons of doing this?
My thought is that mixing it up and splitting into two sparge batches would reduce the effects of channelling...

 

[opiate82]

Channeling doesn't matter with batch sparging, it is only problematic for those who fly sparge. Just give it a good stir when you add your batch sparge water and you should be fine.

I personally do 1 batch sparge but sometimes after adding my sparge water I'll heat up one more gallon just in case I miscalculated and need a little bit extra. If I end up a little short in the kettle I'll do a second batch sparge with that extra gallon. 9 times out of 10 I have enough water with the first batch sparge. I like trying to get the job done with a single sparge because I personally haven't found any benefit with multiple batch sparges so doing it in a single sparge saves time.