First All Grain BIAB - OG

[dallasd9]

Today I did my first All Grain BIAB. I've done ten extract kits with no problems. This brew was an All Grain London Porter BIAB as follows:

5 gallon batch
1.054 Target OG

GRAINS/MALTS
9 lbs 8 oz of American 2 row malt
6 oz Black Barley
4 oz Black Patent Malt
4 oz Chocolate Malt
4 oz Midnight Malt

HOPS
7 AAU Bittering Hop (60 min)
.5 oz Tettnanger Flavoring Hop (10 min)
.5 oz Cascade Aromatic Hop (2 min)

MASHED; in five gallons at 152F - 160F for 1 hour. Removed the bag and drained for 15 minutes (yes, I squeezed the bag).
BATCH SPARGED; by lowering the bag into another kettle of three gallons at 170F and stirred for 15 minutes rinsing with same water as I lifted the bag out and drained again.

I then added 1.5 gallons of the sparged water to the 5 gallons of mashed water for a 6.5 gallon boil. Note: I dumped the remaining 1.5 gallons of sparge water which may have been a mistake.

I boiled the 6.5 gallons for 1.5 hours adding the hops per schedule. My brew kettle has an 8 gallon capacity (15 inch opening) with a false bottom.

I ended up with 4.25 gallons of wort with an OG of 1.065

To correct the higher then expected OG and increase the volume I boiled another .75 gallons of water and added it to the wort for the 5 gallons and it also brought the OG to the target of 1.054. It is now in the fermenter.

After all that, my question is this. Was I correct in adding the .75 gallons of water to the wort or should I have added the sparge water (not boiled) that I dumped out?

Also, any other comments on the process I used would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[PberBob]

IMHO. you’re OK either way if the water was from the same source. Chlorinated tap water wouldn’t have been ideal. I’ve had good results adding filtered RO water for small adjustments. Since the wort’s still hot (>190 F), I don’t bother boiling the water.

 

[RM-MN]

Your beer will be fine with adding the water. I would have added the wort that you discarded instead, capturing the extra sugars and maybe ending up with a little more beer or a beer with a little higher OG. If there wasn't enough room in the pot at the start of the boil I would wait until some of the water had boiled off before adding it. Be aware that if you do that the boil will stop for a bit and when it restarts you will get some foaming again from the unboiled wort you had added.

 

[McKnuckle]

I then added 1.5 gallons of the second runnings to the 5 gallons of first runnings for a 6.5 gallon boil. Note: I dumped the remaining 1.5 gallons of second runnings which may have been a mistake.

[Note terminology correction above]

In all-grain brewing we try not to top up with plain water. That's an extract practice. You should ideally have been more aware of your boil-off rate, and hence boiled a larger volume. Next choice would have been to boil and add the second runnings separately to the post-boil wort after realizing you were short on volume and high on OG.

What you did ultimately won't ruin anything, so don't sweat it. But next time, use wort over water if you have it.

 

[dallasd9]

[Note terminology correction above]

In all-grain brewing we try not to top up with plain water. That's an extract practice. You should ideally have been more aware of your boil-off rate, and hence boiled a larger volume. Next choice would have been to boil and add the second runnings separately to the post-boil wort after realizing you were short on volume and high on OG.

What you did ultimately won't ruin anything, so don't sweat it. But next time, use wort over water if you have it.

Thanks very much for the reply and the terminology correction. It will help in future post to be on the same page. As soon as I dumped the second running I knew I made a mistake.

As a followup question, what is the I'll effect of a high OG other than higher alcohol level?

Thanks again

 

[McKnuckle]

The only ill effect, if any at all, is that it will be in a different balance with the hop bitterness (IBU) than what you intended. The similar thing is true for your diluted brew, since you used plain water, which brought down both the IBU and the OG. It could be worse, neutral, or better in either case!

 

[wsmith1625]

Today I did my first All Grain BIAB. I've done ten extract kits with no problems. This brew was an All Grain London Porter BIAB as follows:

5 gallon batch
1.054 Target OG

GRAINS/MALTS
9 lbs 8 oz of American 2 row malt
6 oz Black Barley
4 oz Black Patent Malt
4 oz Chocolate Malt
4 oz Midnight Malt

HOPS
7 AAU Bittering Hop (60 min)
.5 oz Tettnanger Flavoring Hop (10 min)
.5 oz Cascade Aromatic Hop (2 min)

MASHED; in five gallons at 152F - 160F for 1 hour. Removed the bag and drained for 15 minutes (yes, I squeezed the bag).
BATCH SPARGED; by lowering the bag into another kettle of three gallons at 170F and stirred for 15 minutes rinsing with same water as I lifted the bag out and drained again.

I then added 1.5 gallons of the sparged water to the 5 gallons of mashed water for a 6.5 gallon boil. Note: I dumped the remaining 1.5 gallons of sparge water which may have been a mistake.

I boiled the 6.5 gallons for 1.5 hours adding the hops per schedule. My brew kettle has an 8 gallon capacity (15 inch opening) with a false bottom.

I ended up with 4.25 gallons of wort with an OG of 1.065

To correct the higher then expected OG and increase the volume I boiled another .75 gallons of water and added it to the wort for the 5 gallons and it also brought the OG to the target of 1.054. It is now in the fermenter.

After all that, my question is this. Was I correct in adding the .75 gallons of water to the wort or should I have added the sparge water (not boiled) that I dumped out?

Also, any other comments on the process I used would be appreciated.

Thanks

I think you can simplify you process a lot by getting a larger brew kettle so you can do a full volume mash. I would suggest a 15 gal. kettle, but 10 gal. will also work for 5 gal. batches. Do a full volume mash and eliminate the sparge. Use a good BIAB calculator like Priceless BIAB Calculator so you know what volume of water to start with. Did your batch come up short because you only transferred clear wort, or was that the total volume in the kettle. Most BIAB brewers dump everything into the fermenter. The trub will settle to the bottom and compact a lot, leaving you with more beer in the end.

 

[dallasd9]

I think you can simplify you process a lot by getting a larger brew kettle so you can do a full volume mash. I would suggest a 15 gal. kettle, but 10 gal. will also work for 5 gal. batches. Do a full volume mash and eliminate the sparge. Use a good BIAB calculator like Priceless BIAB Calculator so you know what volume of water to start with. Did your batch come up short because you only transferred clear wort, or was that the total volume in the kettle. Most BIAB brewers dump everything into the fermenter. The trub will settle to the bottom and compact a lot, leaving you with more beer in the end.

The total volume in the kettle is what I transferred to the fermenter (4.25 gallons). I started the boil with 6.5 gallons. I didn't think my boil.off was going to be that high.

I like the idea of eliminating the sparge all together so I'm going to look for a bigger kettle.

 

[soccerdad]

If I am doing the math right, you boiled off .375 gallons every 15 minutes. If you did a 60 minute boil, you would still have the .75 gallon that you needed to add back.

 

[dallasd9]

If I am doing the math right, you boiled off .375 gallons every 15 minutes. If you did a 60 minute boil, you would still have the .75 gallon that you needed to add back.

Correct

 

[LittleRiver]

...I ended up with 4.25 gallons of wort with an OG of 1.065...

...that is the ill effect of a high OG other than higher alcohol level?...

High OG can make for a stressful environment for your yeast, which can lead to off flavors. BTW, there is no hard and fast definition of "high OG", but it seems common for folks to refer to it as being above ~1.065.

To give your yeast the best chance in a high OG wort, make a yeast starter. That way you'll be pitching a high quantity of yeast that are active and ready to get to work.

But you don't have to use a starter for 1.065 wort. For most of my brews I target OG to be around 1.065, and I find that re-pitching ~4oz of saved yeast slurry works just fine. If I make a starter from that slurry, fermentation will kick off faster, but either way the beer comes out the same.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

High OG can make for a stressful environment for your yeast, which can lead to off flavors. BTW, there is no hard and fast definition of "high OG", but it seems common for folks to refer to it as being above ~1.065.

To give your yeast the best chance in a high OG wort, make a yeast starter. That way you'll be pitching a high quantity of yeast that are active and ready to get to work.

But you don't have to use a starter for 1.065 wort. For most of my brews I target OG to be around 1.065, and I find that re-pitching ~4oz of saved yeast slurry works just fine. If I make a starter from that slurry, fermentation will kick off faster, but either way the beer comes out the same.

It reads like you are talking about using a liquid yeast strain.

Both Fermentis and Lallemand have guidance for pitching dry yeast in stressful environments (high gravity, sour beers, ...) - it doesn't involve making a starter.

 

[LittleRiver]

It reads like you are talking about using a liquid yeast strain.

Both Fermentis and Lallemand have guidance for pitching dry yeast in stressful environments (high gravity, sour beers, ...) - it doesn't involve making a starter.

The goal is to pitch an adequate quantity of yeast, that ideally are already active.

A starter is a good way to accomplish that, regardless of the original source of the yeast. It's not the only way, but it is a good way, especially if yeast is being re-used. Some of the cells may have died in the refrigerator, and of course the cold temp makes them go dormant.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

The goal is to pitch an adequate quantity of yeast, that ideally are already active.

I won't argue against your vision of ideal.

I will note that when I use the instructions from Fermentis or Lallemand (pitch it dry, rehydrate if recommended in stressful environments) I get the results I'm looking.

I guess my tag line would be

Sprinkle it dry: Simple, yet effective.

 

[LittleRiver]

I won't argue against your vision of ideal.

It wouldn't matter to me if you did.

I will note that when I use the instructions from Fermentis or Lallemand (pitch it dry, rehydrate if recommended in stressful environments) I get the results I'm looking.

That's cool.

I get great results from re-pitching yeast I've harvested from previous fermentations. The instructions from the supplier don't even mention that as a possibility.

I've got some strains that I have been re-pitching for over 3 years, which goes against the conventional wisdom that says I should not do that. The results? Great fermentations with no off flavors. I'll continue until a problem pops up.

That is simplicity.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I've got some strains that I have been re-pitching for over 3 years, which goes against the conventional wisdom that says I should not do that. The results? Great fermentations with no off flavors. I'll continue until a problem pops up.

Any "secrets" to your success that you'd like to share?

I haven't started looking into re-using yeast, but it sounds like you have a set of skills that I want to know more about.

 

[LittleRiver]

Any "secrets" to your success that you'd like to share? I haven't started looking into re-using yeast...

As you have already surmised, there are no "secrets". Here's my process.

• Clean and sanitize a few 4oz canning jars and lids. For each batch of beer I only collect 2-3 jars of yeast.
• Leave a little beer in the fermenter. Swirl it around to mix with the yeast cake. In storage the yeast will settle to the bottom, protected by the beer above.
• Don't fill the jars all the way, leave room for expansion. Loosely cap them, so gas can escape. Put some masking tape on the lid and write the date and what kind of beer it was.
• Put them in the bottom of the fridge on some paper towels. You'll see why if you have filled them too full.
• To re-use within a couple of months, pull a jar out of the fridge the day before you brew so it can warm up. Discard the old beer that's on top of the yeast, then pitch the whole jar into the new wort.
• To re-use past a couple of months, a day or two before brew day make a starter using about 2oz of the yeast. I've found that it's not required to make a starter using yeast that is months old. Without a starter it will take longer for it to ramp up to a vigorous fermentation. A starter gets the yeast active and reduces lag time (plus it increases the number of cells, which can help if pitching into high gravity wort).

Think about which jar of yeast is most appropriate for the new batch. For example, if making a pale ale avoid using yeast that was used for making a stout. You don't want flavors from dark roasted malts in your pale ale. If making a stout, yeast that was used to make a pale ale will be fine.

I throw away old yeast based on how they look, not necessarily on how long they've been stored. As long as they look good I'll keep them. When they get too dark I'll toss them (factoring in that yeast from dark beers starts out a little darker, which is due to the color of the beer not degradation of the yeast).

What's the limit on the number of times a strain can be re-used? The conventional wisdom I've read says about 5 times. But my experience has been that it can be re-used far longer than that. As previously stated I've got one strain I've been using for well over 3 years, and it is still working great.

I've had success re-using both liquid and dry yeasts this way.