FG reading not low enough..

[MileHighHops]

So my buddy and I brewed two extract kits about 20 days ago, a Tripel and an IPA. Both of which were packaged at one of our LHBS. Both beers have been in primary for 20 days. Here are the quick details:

Tripel SG came in at 1.085, pitched 2 packs of Wyeast 3787 at 81 degrees
IPA SG came in at 1.064, pitched Wyeast 1332 Northwest at 78 degrees

Fermentation took off within 24 hours, and took off like mad. In fact, we had to throw a blow off tube on the Tripel bucket because the top almost blew (during this time the little rubber grommet thingy fell into the beer when shoving the blow off tube in, and the bowl at the end of the tube ended up with about 8 oz of beer fermenting in there...so maybe some yeast escaped via the blow off tube?).

I took gravity readings tonight and the Tripel was 1.024, the IPA 1.020. The directions from the kit say Final Gravity for both should be around 1.011 - 1.014. Now, it also says that our measured gravity should be within 2-6 points at time of secondary transfer (I know, I know, many of you on here don't recommend secondary...but let's try to stay off that subject in this thread .

So, I've always been able to get very close to the recommended final gravity after about 10-15 days in primary. So this is new to me. Will the gravity continue to drop in secondary?

Another note, the basement was around 60-63 degrees, so we turned the temp up a bit to see if that may help. Maybe it was too cool for active fermentation? There was definitely a bunch of krausen residue along the insides of the bucket above the beer line, so I know everything was fermenting well early on.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Dillinja666]

Leave it another week. High gravity and lower fermentation temps might be lagging the yeast a bit. Don't rush, I've made that mistake already.

 

[MileHighHops]

Yeah, hopefully warming up the basement closer to 70 degrees will pick the fermentation up a bit to get to my desired final gravity.

Will the gravity reading continue to drop in secondary? Or does it pretty much reach its stopping point after taking it off the yeast cake when transferring to secondary?

 

[Hang Glider]

There are still billions floating around after removing from the yeast cake (or else carbonation efforts at bottling time would not work!). However, some get a few more points drops after rousing the yeast a bit.

Also, different extract brands are better at getting lower levels. Many extracts finish near 1.020. For example. Lallemand DME is notorious for leaving a lot of unfermentables behind, raising the FG.

 

[MileHighHops]

There are still billions floating around after removing from the yeast cake (or else carbonation efforts at bottling time would not work!). However, some get a few more points drops after rousing the yeast a bit.

Also, different extract brands are better at getting lower levels. Many extracts finish near 1.020. For example. Lallemand DME is notorious for leaving a lot of unfermentables behind, raising the FG.

What are the effects of finishing at 1.020 instead of my desired 1.011? I understand it will affect ABV%, but will there be noticeable off flavors?

 

[RobWalker]

No, in fact it's common to stop fermentation early in wine and cider (the difference between dry, medium and sweet,) dunno about beer though.

It'll be both sweeter and a lower abv. It won't create off flavours to my knowledge, aside from the flavour of any chemicals you've used to stop fermentation for good if you choose to do this.

If you're bottling and carbing in the bottle, thtere'll be plenty of leftover sugar for the yeast to eat, and thus, BOOM! So in this case, don't do it!

But seriously, patience. A good beer needs plenty of TLC so let it do its thing. I usually clear in primary and I'd suggest the same to anyone, so you'd have to wait for that anyway - plus it's a pretty reliable sign that fermentation has finished at the moment the yeast is just finding the leftover sugars and it tends to slow down about now - when you take that first sip, you'll realise it was worth the wait

 

[MileHighHops]

If you're bottling and carbing in the bottle, thtere'll be plenty of leftover sugar for the yeast to eat, and thus, BOOM! So in this case, don't do it!

So you're saying if I top out at 1.020 there will still be enough fermentable sugars to allow the beer to carb in the bottle? So don't add any priming sugar at bottling?

Maybe I should just use an ounce or two less priming sugar than what the recipe calls for (1 oz per gallon)?

Thanks for the replies!

 

[RobWalker]

Yeah, sort of, but definitely don't do it - let it ferment fully or there'll be too much sugar, and that'll cause bottle bombs...if fermentation is left to complete fully, you'll need to add priming sugar as there's no fermentable sugar left in the beer.

 

[Hang Glider]

+1 to the above.
Time will indicate whether you will get another couple of points lower or not - but there may be unfermentable solids floating (microscopically!) around contributing to the total finished gravity reading. More solids = higher number. You don't really know if they're unfermentable solids or more sugars until you give it plenty of time.

 

[MileHighHops]

To update, I moved the primary buckets to a warmer room in the basement a few days ago, probaby in the high 60s. The Tripel fermentation kicked back up. I checked on them this evening and there was a nice layer of krausen that formed back up on the Tripel, and it's droped from 1.024 to 1.018. So I'm sure that one will be fine if I continue to let it do its thing.

The IPA, however, appears to be stuck. It's still at 1.020 and the krausen layer is gone. Any ideas? Can I add a little yeast nutrient or energizer to kick it back up again? Add more yeast? I'd prefer not to let it sit at 1.020 if there's a way I can drop the reading closer to the 1.011 range.

Thoughts?

 

[Yooper]

I'd prefer not to let it sit at 1.020 if there's a way I can drop the reading closer to the 1.011 range.

Why? Is the beer cloyingly sweet right now? Is it too sweet on the finish? Why does it need to drop some more?

Sometimes extract beers just don't finish as low as we'd like. There's nothing "magical" about 1.011, although most of my IPAs do finish lower than 1.020. A recipe can't really give you a projected FG, though. You pitched the yeast really warm, and yeast will go crazy at the temperature.

The 1332 yeast strain normally attenuates about 69% on average but ingredients like crystal malt play a huge part in where it will actually finish. You're currently at 67.4% attenuation- just right about where that yeast normally finishes!

 

[jerseyhb]

My friend and I are doing our second batch and we're having the same issue. We're making an Oktoberfest with lager yeast at room temp, using instructions for doing it that way from AHB (stupid idea in retrospect). It took about 3 days for the yeast to take off (WLP820), but when it did, there was a lot of activity. Airlock activity stopped after 3 days, but now, 2 weeks later, we're stuck at a 1.024 gravity (1.064 starting gravity). We moved to secondary today. The recipe said the final gravity should be 1.012. Should we just wait it out a couple of weeks and see if the gravity goes down? Should we re-pitch more yeast (ale yeast or more WLP820)? If we bottle at a higher gravity do we need to prime? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[MileHighHops]

Why? Is the beer cloyingly sweet right now? Is it too sweet on the finish? Why does it need to drop some more?

Sometimes extract beers just don't finish as low as we'd like. There's nothing "magical" about 1.011, although most of my IPAs do finish lower than 1.020. A recipe can't really give you a projected FG, though. You pitched the yeast really warm, and yeast will go crazy at the temperature.

The 1332 yeast strain normally attenuates about 69% on average but ingredients like crystal malt play a huge part in where it will actually finish. You're currently at 67.4% attenuation- just right about where that yeast normally finishes!

I guess the only reason is to get close to what the recipe called for, and for the ABV%. I haven't tasted to determine if it's too sweet, but it certainly smells like an IPA should. I've done about 11 extract batches since I first started brewing earlier this year, and this is my first batch to miss the called for FG reading.

 

[Yooper]

I guess the only reason is to get close to what the recipe called for, and for the ABV%. I haven't tasted to determine if it's too sweet, but it certainly smells like an IPA should. I've done about 11 extract batches since I first started brewing earlier this year, and this is my first batch to miss the called for FG reading.

If you used a different, more attenutive, yeast strain, maybe it'd be a bit lower. But since the yeast strain's average attenuation is 69% and you're at 67.4%, hitting 1.011 is not really reasonable. You're really nearly at the yeast strain's limit.

Lots of things go into hitting the FG- the yeast strain's attenuation, the ingredients, mash temperatures in an all-grain batch, temperature, etc. It's not always easy or possible to predict the exact FG but a reasonable guess can usually made.

 

[Yooper]

My friend and I are doing our second batch and we're having the same issue. We're making an Oktoberfest with lager yeast at room temp, using instructions for doing it that way from AHB (stupid idea in retrospect). It took about 3 days for the yeast to take off (WLP820), but when it did, there was a lot of activity. Airlock activity stopped after 3 days, but now, 2 weeks later, we're stuck at a 1.024 gravity (1.064 starting gravity). We moved to secondary today. The recipe said the final gravity should be 1.012. Should we just wait it out a couple of weeks and see if the gravity goes down? Should we re-pitch more yeast (ale yeast or more WLP820)? If we bottle at a higher gravity do we need to prime? Any advice would be appreciated.

That's a bit of a different issue. At 1.024, you're too high. I would suggest not racking until you ARE at FG but if you've already racked then you could wait a week and see if it drops. If not, pitch a clean well-attenuating ale yeast. I wouldn't bottle, at least not until I tried to bring the SG down a bit.

 

[jerseyhb]

That's a bit of a different issue. At 1.024, you're too high. I would suggest not racking until you ARE at FG but if you've already racked then you could wait a week and see if it drops. If not, pitch a clean well-attenuating ale yeast. I wouldn't bottle, at least not until I tried to bring the SG down a bit.

Thanks, Yooper. If we do need to re-pitch, do we aerate again?

 

[Hang Glider]

... If we do need to re-pitch, do we aerate again?

NO!

mostly, it's beer now, so aerating will be detrimental, not beneficial. This time, the yeast will have to make do without much oxygen.

 

[GreenDragon]

I realize you probably already popped the top to take readings, but if it was steal sealed with lots of lovely CO2 on top of it you could give in a nice swirl. More of circular motion then a splashing motion. I had to kick start my milk stout that way.